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08-05-2016, 08:55 AM   #376
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
For still shots the implementation makes no difference. For video, however, the ability for the camera to smoothly adjust the aperture is nice.

I don't think all future lenses will use KAF4. Those lenses designed to be ultra-compact wouldn't have space for the necessary hardware, for instance.
I think from a manufacturing perspective an all electronic interface costs less and is easier to make, at least that's what I had read.
maybe this is why sometimes same 3rd party lens for canon costs cheaper than that for Nikon/Pentax.

So if this is true, then we may see Sigma & tamron more inclined towards making lenses for Pentax (& off course the market share plays it's role )

08-05-2016, 09:19 AM   #377
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Just to add my 2 cents worth....

The 55-300 PLM, I believe somewhere it was designated as a Pulse Motor.
The collapsable 55-300 is smaller than previous models, not bigger. If anything the electronics make the unit smaller, not bigger.
KAF4 lenses appear to be cheaper. The 55-300 is less than the release price of previous Dependability issues are yet to be known, but K-mount K-KAF3 lenses have the best frequency of repair record in the industry. It remains to be seen if the new electronics will be up to the standard set by the grossly over designed Aperture lever.

-10% lighter
-collapses to 3,5 inches retracted.

From imagine resources.....
QuoteQuote:
By driving this focusing lens using a pulse motor (PLM), which is directly linked to a lead screw, this zoom lens also operates faster . approximately 8.3 times at its wide-angle end and approximately 1.7 times at its telephoto end .and quieter than its predecessor. When mounted on the new PENTAX K-70 digital SLR camera body (also announced today), it assures smoother, faster AF operation with dimly lit subjects, thanks to an improved AF algorithm that exchanges AF data between the camera body and the lens with greater precision.
Personally, I see this lens along with the DA 16-85 as pretty much the perfect light weight do anything travel kit. But I kind of hope they'll come out with a 15-70, to compliment it, also KAF4.
08-05-2016, 10:31 AM   #378
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Thank you for your answer Ooku, so i guess on sale now in Japan
Which means maybe next week in the rest of the world
08-05-2016, 11:17 AM   #379
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
... (but older camera's don't have enough space left to update the firmware)
If you say it often enough and phrase it factually, then it must be true? Come on. That's pure speculation. Or do you have any authoritative source? Seems more likely to me - but equally speculative - that Ricoh wants to push users to update their bodies. Personally, I'll be surprised if any new lens released from now on isn't KAF4... But only time will tell, since, AFAIK, Ricoh has remained completely mum on this. Perhaps that - will all future lenses be KAF4? - should be a question put to them at Photokina...

08-05-2016, 11:39 AM   #380
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
That's pure speculation
I believe Ricoh have said as much or maybe Asahiman Why would they update de K-s1 and not the K-3 otherwise. When Ricoh brought out the rear converter they updated the firmware as far back as the K-7 and K-r (And yes the K20d people complained ).
08-05-2016, 01:18 PM   #381
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
I believe Ricoh have said as much or maybe Asahiman
Got a link for me? I certainly have not seen any official statement.

QuoteQuote:
Why would they update de K-s1 and not the K-3 otherwise.
Because they drew a line on a calendar (of camera release dates)? My guess: the general policy is not to backport new features to released camera firmwares. (So no pixel shift for the K-3, for example.) But in this case, since this is fairly big, and it wouldn't make (much) sense to release KAF4 on the K-70 alone - especially if upcoming lenses will all be KAF4 - they decided to include all firmwares that were still in development (or, say, not feature-frozen) at the time that the decision to go with KAF4 was taken. Which would mean that this decision was taken around the time that the K-3 was released, but before any of the included cameras were out on the market. So the software teams making those firmwares (K-S1, K-S2, K-3 II and K-1) were asked (even before the release of these cameras) to make a development branch for KAF4 capability for each of these cameras, but the K-3 firmware was already feature-frozen and so got left out.

Last edited by Doundounba; 08-05-2016 at 01:28 PM.
08-05-2016, 02:01 PM   #382
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
If you say it often enough and phrase it factually, then it must be true? Come on. That's pure speculation. Or do you have any authoritative source? Seems more likely to me - but equally speculative - that Ricoh wants to push users to update their bodies. Personally, I'll be surprised if any new lens released from now on isn't KAF4... But only time will tell, since, AFAIK, Ricoh has remained completely mum on this. Perhaps that - will all future lenses be KAF4? - should be a question put to them at Photokina...
That is a good idea for a question. Noted!

Anyway, the main benefit of KAF4 is the ability to smoothly adjust the aperture during video recording. It's not a feature that will be used particularly much, especially outside of the entry-level segment (IMO). It could also potentially allow for more precise (accurate) aperture control, but at the moment I have no practical experience regarding this. And since it breaks backwards-compatibility with film an all pre-2014 digital bodies, that's another point to consider. I agree that it would make sense to go all-electronic in the long term, but if that's the goal then you might as well come up with a new mount entirely, since cameras without the stop-down lever would fail to support any lenses other than KAF4.

That's why I don't think every new Pentax lens will have KAF4. After all, the mechanical lever is extremely simple and probably dirt-cheap to manufacture. There are also lots of users of older bodies who are still in the market for new lenses. Time will tell, I guess!

Adam
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08-05-2016, 02:48 PM   #383
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
That is a good idea for a question. Noted!
Thanks!

QuoteQuote:
Anyway, the main benefit of KAF4 is the ability to smoothly adjust the aperture during video recording.
That's the main user-side benefit. But on the assembly-side, if you're going to keep releasing KAF3 and KAF4 lenses, there's an associated additional cost in parts inventories, in assembly line tools, training and so forth. On the other hand, if (say) you're only going to be releasing new lenses in KAF4, you can probably (eventually) streamline assembly line operations and tools. You'll only need to repair existing KAF3 lenses (for a while). This would also assume that you feel you have enough inventory in current (KAF3) lenses to meet your needs for the forseable future (ie until you can replace every lens you want to keep selling with a KAF4 version). So there's also a possibility they might want to keep producing more inventory of the existing KAF3 lenses for a while, even if all newly introduced lenses are KAF4. But I imagine sooner or later, there will be pressure on management to streamline production operations and not keep the facilities/tools/etc necessary to produce two different types of aperture control mechanisms...

QuoteQuote:
It's not a feature that will be used particularly much, especially outside of the entry-level segment (IMO).
To me that depends whether or not Ricoh want to make a (k-mount based) push into the (DSLR) videography territory... If they do want to make a "4k-push" on the high end, then releasing all the upcoming fast primes in KAF4 would make sense - they become nice videographer tools with stepless aperture. You might even be able to release lenses with an (electronically coupled) aperture ring that can switch from having aperture stop "clicks" to being stepless with the press of a button.

08-05-2016, 08:29 PM - 2 Likes   #384
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
Got a link for me? I certainly have not seen any official statement.
Doundounba, just FYI, this is not an official anything but it's Kimio Tanaka, a professional photographer in Japan, who tweeted his conversations with PENTAX to tell us that it's the memory footprint issue. See my post earlier in this thread:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/323012-hd-pentax-da...ml#post3681854

That's not just a random guy, he's one of the three photographers Ricoh hired for Japanese K-70 promotional website.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/193-pentax-k-70/325926-japanese-k-70-prom...l-website.html

I can believe that Mr. Tanaka was told by PENTAX that it's the memory footprint. He's a successful photographer and writer, and seems to have a long professional relationship with PENTAX giving seminar/workshops and writing about PENTAX products in the past. This time he's saying "But I'm still sad" (because older PENTAX cameras don't support KAF-4). I don't see any reason he had to lie.

Did PENTAX tell the truth to him? That's anybody's guess.
08-05-2016, 08:39 PM   #385
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By the time it potentially becomes an issue, won't the KAF3-only bodies be a distant memory?

That is to say, are some of us making a mountain out of a mole hill on this issue? I mean even if Ricoh re-released the current lineup for KAF4, there are still a ton of lenses to use with these unsupported camera bodies.. and by the time it potentially becomes a problem the K-3II and K-1 will be old and cheaper. Look at the K-5. It was 1200 dollars 6 years ago, today it goes for 200-300ish and is pretty long in the tooth.
08-05-2016, 08:55 PM   #386
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Lightweight 18-50 RE and 55-300 RE. Now we just need a WR K-02 to go with those. :
08-05-2016, 08:55 PM   #387
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so good, thank ad
08-05-2016, 10:01 PM   #388
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
If you say it often enough and phrase it factually, then it must be true? Come on. That's pure speculation. Or do you have any authoritative source? Seems more likely to me - but equally speculative - that Ricoh wants to push users to update their bodies. Personally, I'll be surprised if any new lens released from now on isn't KAF4... But only time will tell, since, AFAIK, Ricoh has remained completely mum on this. Perhaps that - will all future lenses be KAF4? - should be a question put to them at Photokina...
That would be a good question to ask. At least all of us will know which direction to take.
08-06-2016, 09:18 AM   #389
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I agree that it would make sense to go all-electronic in the long term, but if that's the goal then you might as well come up with a new mount entirely, since cameras without the stop-down lever would fail to support any lenses other than KAF4.
Nope because you'd still be able to use very old MF lenses on any new body that would keep that lever even if all new lenses are all KAF4. You could plan to stop support except maybe on the high end bodies, 10 years after the last KAF3 lens was sold and remove it entirely 20 years after that letting lot of time for your client to upgrade.

And any lens old enough to have an apperture ring would still work well as long you'd use that apperture ring.
08-06-2016, 09:24 AM   #390
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
That's the main user-side benefit. But on the assembly-side, if you're going to keep releasing KAF3 and KAF4 lenses, there's an associated additional cost in parts inventories, in assembly line tools, training and so forth.
From that point of view KAF 4 actually induced this increased cost by introducing a different standard. Some of the very recently release lenses like the DFA line would be available for the years to come likely for around 10 years. The FA ltd have been available already for more than 15 years and are still in the official line up.

By introducing KAF4 they increase the cost and they have no chance for this additionnal cost of more inventory, more things to master etc as you explained before at least 10 years and 10-20 more years to stop compatibilities of old KAF3 lenses on bodies.

And all of this is for something that may cost $1 to manufacture and that all their workers master perfectly. They didn't introduce KAF4 to reduce costs.
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