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08-28-2016, 02:17 PM   #286
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
"K-70 fails short of all APS-C DSLR released this year - except Sigma."

This sentence, in résumé, shows the amateurism degree of those chaps, mixing any segment or even mirrorless/slr altogether...
Not only industries need to progress, some of those whose communication pedagogy is full-job part shouldn't lag behind, and have no excuse for beeing misleading....
They actually told lots of truth, but truth and Pentax fan state of denial don't mix well.

All crop DSLRs released in the last 12 months, and those are Canon's and Nikon's DSLRs, have by default superior AF in all modes and a better video mode. Guess why is that? Because unlike Ricoh, Nikon and Canon are serious camera makers, they treat customers seriously, invest in crucial tech, test it, invest more, and make it work.

Ricoh is too lazy for all that; like beer-gutted abusing husband, they know they can mismanage their customers, because their customers are used to that and become sort of addicted. Like an abused wife to a series of her abusing husbands. That includes Hoya and Asahi; all beer-gutted lazy bullies. A small percentage of people are like that, they can suffer abuse and still believe in their happy marriage, and Ricoh caters for those.

K-70 can't compete with 80D, and D500 is a league of its own. Even small Nikons have better video, battery life, better, silent and faster focusing kit lenses too. K70 has weather sealing though. K-70 is an evolution, it may be the best overall small Pentax released so far, and overall fine package for those on budget, but that's it.


Last edited by Uluru; 08-28-2016 at 02:33 PM.
08-28-2016, 02:18 PM - 1 Like   #287
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QuoteOriginally posted by BATMON Quote
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08-28-2016, 02:23 PM   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
....
K-70 can't compete with 80D, and D500 is a league of its own. Even small Nikons have better video, battery life, better and faster focusing kit lenses too. K70 has weather sealing though. K-70 is an evolution, it may be the best overall small Pentax released so far, and overall fine package for the undemanding, but that's it.
This statement is totally irrelevant.
If you're going to compare Pentax K-70 to a Canon product, the product should have a name starting with "T" and ending with "i".
If you're going to compare Pentax K-70 to a Nikon product, the product should have a 4-digit name.

added:
The Canon 80D is priced at nearly two times the Pentax K-70
The Nikon D500 is priced at nearly three times the Pentax K-70

Last edited by reh321; 08-28-2016 at 02:32 PM. Reason: pricing info
08-28-2016, 02:46 PM - 1 Like   #289
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$$$Price versus price...see what you get for your $....im pretty sure Ricoh is a fair way ahead for the niches in the market that they aim at.

08-28-2016, 07:07 PM   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Looks like a good presentation. Only thing I would have done different is that If you advertise the K-70 for it's autofocus system then I would have put in the af sensor from k-3ii or K-1 and not the oldy from K-5ii.
then the K-3 II sales would have steadily gone down....

I agree that 11 AF points is way outdated, but then 27 AF points for a mid-range isnt all that modern.

I'd say 19 AF points for K-70 - enough to improve autofocus coverage - not enough to threaten it's mid-range sibling.




---------- Post added 08-28-16 at 07:26 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
They actually told lots of truth, but truth and Pentax fan state of denial don't mix well.

All crop DSLRs released in the last 12 months, and those are Canon's and Nikon's DSLRs, have by default superior AF in all modes and a better video mode. Guess why is that? Because unlike Ricoh, Nikon and Canon are serious camera makers, they treat customers seriously, invest in crucial tech, test it, invest more, and make it work.

Ricoh is too lazy for all that; like beer-gutted abusing husband, they know they can mismanage their customers, because their customers are used to that and become sort of addicted. Like an abused wife to a series of her abusing husbands. That includes Hoya and Asahi; all beer-gutted lazy bullies. A small percentage of people are like that, they can suffer abuse and still believe in their happy marriage, and Ricoh caters for those.

K-70 can't compete with 80D, and D500 is a league of its own. Even small Nikons have better video, battery life, better, silent and faster focusing kit lenses too. K70 has weather sealing though. K-70 is an evolution, it may be the best overall small Pentax released so far, and overall fine package for those on budget, but that's it.
There is a lot of truth in what you are saying.... Pentax is not at all a competition for Nikon & Canon, who can even focus moving objects in live view and give 4 fps burst, and who can easily give 30+9 cross or 19 cross AF points in it's models who compete with K-70 with 2+9 cross type. Not that Pentax cant provide it, it's just that It has to think about keeping the difference between it's flag-ship-mid range camera and an upper entry level offering which by current standards, itself has less AF points.
08-28-2016, 09:38 PM   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by anu l Quote
who can even focus moving objects in live view
The K-70 autofocus will be absolutely fine for most users, even in live view. Also note that many Canon 6D users will vehemently dispute any claim that 11 AF points makes for poor autofocus in a camera ...

Plus not all of the Nikon or Canon APS-C equivalents can shoot in all weather, and in low light too (since the K-70 has -3 EV sensitive AF). And remind me which of the Canon or Nikon's do pixel shift, or handle as well as a Pentax, and do simple but handy things like let you record your RAWs in DNG?

tl;dr - as a package, it's going to be a good camera for most usage cases.
08-28-2016, 09:56 PM   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by anu l Quote
then the K-3 II sales would have steadily gone down....

I agree that 11 AF points is way outdated, but then 27 AF points for a mid-range isnt all that modern.

I'd say 19 AF points for K-70 - enough to improve autofocus coverage - not enough to threaten it's mid-range sibling.
There no need I think for more AF point in the entry level 11 is sufficiant. There 2 problem with the 11 point AF through:

- The algorithsm that work well for AFS in K3 and later bodies is not there.
- The off center AF point are too big preventing to use AF for precise of center shooting, that is half of the interrest of off center point (second is to give a deph matrix to the camera so that it can track subjects).

Pentax could save that by using the AF sensor using on K3 and beyond. They could even use the same sensor array and desactivate more sensors, a bit like 6 AF point are disabled by default on K3 and K3-II but not on K1.
08-28-2016, 10:08 PM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by anu l Quote
There is a lot of truth in what you are saying.... Pentax is not at all a competition for Nikon & Canon, who can even focus moving objects in live view and give 4 fps burst, and who can easily give 30+9 cross or 19 cross AF points in it's models who compete with K-70 with 2+9 cross type. Not that Pentax cant provide it, it's just that It has to think about keeping the difference between it's flag-ship-mid range camera and an upper entry level offering which by current standards, itself has less AF points.
Here in term of price K70 is put againstEOS 700 and EOS 750D from Canon and from Nikon D5500. From Pentax itself, the obvious competition is K3. This is because we look at introduction price.

So depending we get models with 9 to 39 AF points. If this is important to you and want a Pentax, you take a K3 and you'll find an AF that is very capable, nothing to complain compared to what is put in front of it.

K70 aims to sell the hybrid AF, that isn't really used fully and improved high isos in JPEG. For some reason many see it as a big deal while most of the time it behave the same as a K30 with the added comfort of titling screen.

We will see what the next APSC flagship will bring. It would make lot of sense for it to refine the K70 hybrid AF, bring at least use the 33AF points of the latest AF sensor with tweaked algorithms, but I would not be surprised if Pentax was to release an AF sensor with more AF points 40 or 50.

Beside personnally I don't care one bit of LV performance until you bring me an EVF and I would expect more than 4FPS.

08-28-2016, 10:16 PM   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
a bit like 6 AF point are disabled by default on K3 and K3-II but not on K1.
It isn't accurate to describe it as disabled by default.

While the K-1 AF metering chip/sensor looks the same as the one in the K-3, all of the AF sensor box on the K-1 that feeds the AF sensor is new and different compared to the K-3/K-3II, as you can see from my little diagram below:

08-29-2016, 12:13 AM   #295
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Interesting diagrams, showing by the way (with some visual imagination) the fact that SAFFOX 12 has significantly enlarged the AF sensor space in comparison with SAFFOX 11 : this might really be noticeable on next (K-2 is my pronostic) APS-C body.
08-29-2016, 12:16 AM   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by anu l Quote
then the K-3 II sales would have steadily gone down....

I agree that 11 AF points is way outdated, but then 27 AF points for a mid-range isnt all that modern.

I'd say 19 AF points for K-70 - enough to improve autofocus coverage - not enough to threaten it's mid-range sibling.
Well K-3ii sales are down. Because people buy a K-1 and those who buy k-1 sell their K-3, K-5ii and else on the second hand market.

Using one newer existing af-module is cheaper then making a new one.



PS I did not know that Safox 11 and 12 where almost the same. Not much r&d went into that.
08-29-2016, 12:34 AM   #297
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
PS I did not know that Safox 11 and 12 where almost the same. Not much r&d went into that.
It looks like quite a lot to me:
- Scaling up the optics and AF box to FF size
- Changing from single mirror design to double mirror to minimize physical size
- Scaling up the sensor chip to FF size

In the future I expect two major improvements for the K-1 successor: more AF points and improved subject tracking logic. The box design are state of the art and will probably be reused for a long time. Sometime later then the K-1 successor we might also see the upcoming FF AF module in a high end APS-C camera, covering the sensor area extremely well.
08-29-2016, 12:36 AM   #298
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The sensor I think it's the same (any kind of scaling up can be done in optics).
The optics are clearly different.
The algorithms, I guess there was some work done here, too?
In-body AF motor, different?
If we consider the mirror system part of the AF system, the secondary mirror is different, too.
08-29-2016, 04:45 AM   #299
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SAFOX 12 in APS-C camera will be very good, it covers bigger area than in K-1 and I think it helps to implement not bad AF-C with new type of in-camera processor
08-29-2016, 11:36 AM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well K-3ii sales are down. Because people buy a K-1 and those who buy k-1 sell their K-3, K-5ii and else on the second hand market.

Using one newer existing af-module is cheaper then making a new one.



PS I did not know that Safox 11 and 12 where almost the same. Not much r&d went into that.
The chip didn't change but all the rest changed. It allows to maintain a somewhat small sensor chip and somewhat small place for the AF system while covering a decent area. As Simen1 explain would they put exactly that on an APSC body, this would bring AF coverage similar to what D500 has in term of surface.
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