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09-04-2016, 09:57 AM - 2 Likes   #346
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
It was sad joke. K-70 is only ONE camera on photo market which has no any good and deep description of Hybrid AF.
Basic info without any explanation of K-70's Hybrid AF system on official web-site. It's all.

We don't even know if K-70 has such AF system in the reality...
We do know because they say so. Is naming a number of pdaf points so important to you? Ok it has 175 pdaf points

09-04-2016, 09:42 PM   #347
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
We do know because they say so. Is naming a number of pdaf points so important to you? Ok it has 175 pdaf points
It's important for ALL users, not only for me.

It has no 175 AF points. Give us the proof, otherwise you spread wrong information at the forum.

Last edited by ogl; 09-04-2016 at 09:48 PM.
09-04-2016, 11:24 PM   #348
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
We do know because they say so. Is naming a number of pdaf points so important to you? Ok it has 175 pdaf points
This is nonsense. The pdaf should be in the spec-sheet. Ogl complaint about that missing information is good. You'r down playing and downdumbing him is just a childish thing you do way to often. This is not coming from any knowledge that you have or any
analyses, but from a fanboy standpoint that feels that Pentax is the best in the World.

Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 09-04-2016 at 11:33 PM.
09-05-2016, 01:10 AM - 1 Like   #349
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
This is nonsense. The pdaf should be in the spec-sheet. Ogl complaint about that missing information is good. You'r down playing and downdumbing him is just a childish thing you do way to often. This is not coming from any knowledge that you have or any
analyses, but from a fanboy standpoint that feels that Pentax is the best in the World.
Call somebody on the Pentax forum a fan boy will you? What are you still doing here? do you hate Pentaxians so much you need to spoil the atmosphere on the forum by being a doom sayer literally all of the time Ron?

09-05-2016, 02:07 AM   #350
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FTR, Ogl practically accused Ricoh Imaging of lying in their specifications:
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
We don't even know if K-70 has such AF system in the reality...
In other words, saying that official information:
"By incorporating a hybrid AF system — which harmonizes the advantages of a contrast-detection AF sensor and an image-plane phase-matching AF sensor — the PENTAX K-70 assures responsive, high-accuracy autofocus operation during Live View shooting using the LCD monitor."
might be a lie.

This is no mere "the number of on-sensor PDAF points should be in the specifications". Ron, you're trying to hide the extent of Ogl's accusations, combining that with name calling...

By the way, they do say there are 35 AF areas (in the user manual); the Sony A600 has 179 AF points and 25 AF areas so even if it is the same sensor, there are some implementation differences.
09-05-2016, 02:20 AM   #351
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When looking at noise characteristics it is more likely to be similar to the Fuji sensor in the x-pro2/x-t2 than the a6000 a6300. A bit finer grain and less chroma noise.

Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review
09-05-2016, 02:28 AM   #352
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Fuji is also using Sony sensors, right?
But implementation differs; Bayer filters (Fuji is using an X-Trans layout), electronics, perhaps the sensor itself was slightly altered? Unless people like Chipworks would precisely identify the sensor, we won't know.
Not that it matters - all we should care about is the output.
09-05-2016, 03:50 AM   #353
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
FTR, Ogl practically accused Ricoh Imaging of lying in their specifications:

In other words, saying that official information:

might be a lie.
It's ridiculously and outrageous. It was just my sarcasm and nothing else.

The problem is and the problem is rather serious. A lot of Pentaxians want to upgrade the cameras and want to buy K-70 as second body, but
we can't find anything like this anywhere at Ricoh's web-resources
TOP : Auto Focus System Special Site | FUJIFILM
FUJIFILM X-E2 | features - Firmware Ver.4.00 Enhancement for X-E2 | Fujifilm Global


why doesn't Ricoh offer the same material for the users?

Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/193-pentax-k-70/327211-no-hybrid-af-k-70-...#ixzz4JNc0Nw56


No any promotion and explanation about FIRST HYBRID AF in PENTAX HISTORY!

Even Adam who tested K-70 can't give us any exact info about Hybrid AF of K-70.
LV AF is the same as K-S2...Where is the advantage of Hybrid AF?

Is it the same technology as in Fuji and Sony or Ricoh means something else? Who knows?

Me and my friends officially asked Ricoh's representatives via Penta-Club and official form at web-site about Hybrid AF.
They know NOTHING, except several words at Ricoh's web-site


It's all...


Last edited by ogl; 09-05-2016 at 04:00 AM.
09-05-2016, 03:58 AM   #354
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A real test would mean put a k-s2 and and a K-3 II and a K-70 next to each other and have them focus on the same subject with the same lens an repeat that for different situations with different types of lens (DC, SDM, Screw drive,PLS). The you can say something about the improvements. Not just a subjective this doesn't seem faster than the k-s2.
09-05-2016, 04:23 AM   #355
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
It's ridiculously and outrageous. It was just my sarcasm and nothing else.

The problem is and the problem is rather serious. A lot of Pentaxians want to upgrade the cameras and want to buy K-70 as second body, but
we can't find anything like this anywhere at Ricoh's web-resources
TOP : Auto Focus System Special Site | FUJIFILM
FUJIFILM X-E2 | features - Firmware Ver.4.00 Enhancement for X-E2 | Fujifilm Global


why doesn't Ricoh offer the same material for the users?

Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/193-pentax-k-70/327211-no-hybrid-af-k-70-...#ixzz4JNc0Nw56


No any promotion and explanation about FIRST HYBRID AF in PENTAX HISTORY!

Even Adam who tested K-70 can't give us any exact info about Hybrid AF of K-70.
LV AF is the same as K-S2...Where is the advantage of Hybrid AF?

Is it the same technology as in Fuji and Sony or Ricoh means something else? Who knows?

Me and my friends officially asked Ricoh's representatives via Penta-Club and official form at web-site about Hybrid AF.
They know NOTHING, except several words at Ricoh's web-site


It's all...
It doesn't sound like a big deal to me. It sounds much like what some mirrorless cameras have had for a while now. The sensor has some PDAF points and these help with high-speed AF meaning that accurate capture of moving subjects and tracking works better when using Live View. It's like the difference between the Olympus E-M1 and the E-M5 Mk II - same sensor, one with on-sensor PDAF and one without. The difference between the two isn't said to be all that great, I believe, but perhaps newer generations of sensor and software will enhance the difference. The rest is marketing, which every corporation likes to indulge in. The basic notion, however, is very straightforward and not much to get excited about, quite honestly. I haven't seen any demo in which on-sensor PDAF beats a dedicated phase-detect array. It's a little helper, that's all. Maybe future tech will change that.

I agree that Ricoh could make more effort to explain this if they believe it is a genuinely worthwhile sales feature. However, it is a little unfair to blame Ricoh alone, and I certainly don't believe they are trying to deceive anyone. It's a culture clash, in my view. There is a chronic problem with all the Japanese camera-makers over the way in which they explain - or, rather, fail to explain - the nature of their products and how to use them to Western consumers. Most folks in the West aren't used to working out highly technical gizmos on their own and appreciate pretty fulsome explanations and walk-throughs. A marketing blurb and a dense user manual in barking dog style aren't enough.

Last edited by mecrox; 09-05-2016 at 04:30 AM.
09-05-2016, 04:38 AM   #356
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
It's ridiculously and outrageous. It was just my sarcasm and nothing else.
[...]
Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/193-pentax-k-70/327211-no-hybrid-af-k-70-...#ixzz4JNc0Nw56
[...]
Yes, it's ridiculous and outrageous at the same time - to accuse Ricoh Imaging of lying. This is brand bashing, and nothing more.
The thread you linked to contains more explicit accusations.

It might be a cultural difference - perhaps "you are lying" is as bland as "good day to you, nice Sir!" in Siberia - but you should be more restrained in such accusations. Make them when you have solid proof.

And of course, incomplete documentation is very much different than camera makers lying about the technical characteristics of their products.

---------- Post added 05-09-16 at 02:43 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
A real test would mean put a k-s2 and and a K-3 II and a K-70 next to each other and have them focus on the same subject with the same lens an repeat that for different situations with different types of lens (DC, SDM, Screw drive,PLS). The you can say something about the improvements. Not just a subjective this doesn't seem faster than the k-s2.
The presence of hybrid AF might be confirmed by watching the AF system's tendency to hunt and start focusing in the wrong direction. But we already know it's there, the only question is - how well does it work?
09-05-2016, 06:01 AM   #357
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Yes, it's ridiculous and outrageous at the same time - to accuse Ricoh Imaging of lying. This is brand bashing, and nothing more.
The thread you linked to contains more explicit accusations.
Every man sees what he want to see.
Big words rend the air, not the interlocutor.

If you are in bad mood, please, don't try to pass the desirable for reality. Your thoughts about me is just the false picture inside your brain.

Last edited by ogl; 09-05-2016 at 07:16 AM.
09-05-2016, 06:09 AM   #358
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This PENTAX POLICE PATROL that keep hitting on every ounce of critique around here should go out and find a better hobby.

People buy camera's for various reasons. The sensor and it's performance is one of them. On sensor pdaf is not some juicy firmware thing, it's a fysical part of the sensor. So to sell camera's and to inform your customers you should put it in the spec-sheet. If you don't then it might not exist. ..or at least except that it is non-functual for future sales to make.
09-05-2016, 06:13 AM - 2 Likes   #359
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Yes, it's ridiculous and outrageous at the same time - to accuse Ricoh Imaging of lying. This is brand bashing, and nothing more.
The thread you linked to contains more explicit accusations.

It might be a cultural difference - perhaps "you are lying" is as bland as "good day to you, nice Sir!" in Siberia - but you should be more restrained in such accusations. Make them when you have solid proof.

And of course, incomplete documentation is very much different than camera makers lying about the technical characteristics of their products.

---------- Post added 05-09-16 at 02:43 PM ----------


The presence of hybrid AF might be confirmed by watching the AF system's tendency to hunt and start focusing in the wrong direction. But we already know it's there, the only question is - how well does it work?
I have a suggestion for all three or four of you guys apparently hung up on the K70's technical aspects.

Rather than stoking it up all the time and raising tensions in a hot medium - there is a big element here of Who Cares? anyway, the world has more important things to worry about - my suggestion would be to write a polite letter to the Chairman of Ricoh. Use pen and paper, not email. If after a few attempts there is no answer or an unsatisfactory answer, then you will have your reply. The Chairman neither knows nor cares whether the company has a camera division. I'm sure that isn't true of Ricoh, of course, but it probably is all too true of many companies and their approach to small subdivisions. In my experience, the very senior people in these places are often surprisingly isolated and don't really know what is going on out there among the massed ranks of their customers. They are reduced to quizzing their daughter and her school friends. The smart ones, and they are usually very smart to have got that far, often welcome news from the frontline and pay close attention to what a letter says. For them, it can be a genuine insight into how well X, Y or Z department is actually doing.

I look forward to your telling us what the Chairman of Ricoh has say on the matter. He is a charming gentleman, I am sure. Until then the only answer is "Don't Know" and there is no point in arguing about that is there?

Last edited by mecrox; 09-05-2016 at 06:46 AM.
09-05-2016, 06:33 AM - 2 Likes   #360
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
This PENTAX POLICE PATROL that keep hitting on every ounce of critique around here should go out and find a better hobby.

People buy camera's for various reasons. The sensor and it's performance is one of them. On sensor pdaf is not some juicy firmware thing, it's a fysical part of the sensor. So to sell camera's and to inform your customers you should put it in the spec-sheet. If you don't then it might not exist. ..or at least except that it is non-functual for future sales to make.
This Pentax one man trolling squad should take his own advice
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