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11-06-2016, 07:47 AM   #406
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
added: I posted this picture last week. I took it with an old AdaptAll lens(*), so any focusing issues are me, not the camera. This guy wasn't going anywhere; any modern camera could have focused easily on him, but he was in the shade and I had to take the picture at ISO = 6400, which was lower than I had used on earlier ones of him. If I had posted a 16MP copy of this image, you could have zoomed in and seen a lot of noise. A camera which gracefully handles higher ISO would have been very nice at this point.

(*) if I had known he would be so cooperative, I would have used my DA 55-300 lens, but I used the AdaptAll lens + AdaptAll TC, which effectively gives me a 120-600mm lens
The problem of this picture is that it work for Id, that is really nice but the question is what does it bring, really outside of being happy to get something? People manage better routinely with their compact camera!

It isn't nice artistically or nice technically. A bridge can many time do better. It is maybe a 100% crop of a 24MP picture, but it isn't sharp. You'd need to display it at something like 320x200 so it doesn't look soft. There not more than 2-3MP worth of detail on the whole uncropped picture. There no need for a good camera to do that, even if of course a good camera can also take bad photos at time...

And yes maybe if you managed to get AF on this one, it would have looked far better...

I may not have the wonderfull capabilities of that K70, I even used a slow 55-300... but at least it didn't look as soft... And this one honestly is already far too soft. This rougly 1000mm FF equiv




Last edited by Nicolas06; 11-06-2016 at 07:54 AM.
11-06-2016, 10:50 AM   #407
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The problem of this picture is that it work for Id, that is really nice but the question is what does it bring, really outside of being happy to get something? People manage better routinely with their compact camera!

It isn't nice artistically or nice technically. A bridge can many time do better. It is maybe a 100% crop of a 24MP picture, but it isn't sharp. You'd need to display it at something like 320x200 so it doesn't look soft. There not more than 2-3MP worth of detail on the whole uncropped picture. There no need for a good camera to do that, even if of course a good camera can also take bad photos at time...

And yes maybe if you managed to get AF on this one, it would have looked far better...

I may not have the wonderfull capabilities of that K70, I even used a slow 55-300... but at least it didn't look as soft... And this one honestly is already far too soft. This rougly 1000mm FF equiv
The primary problem with my picture was the lack of light, which forced the K-30 into a very high ISO {for it} but still left it at limited DOF despite lowish shutter speed. A bridge camera would have been hopeless under those conditions; even my Q-7, with a sensor larger than a bridge camera, would have seriously struggled in that light.

added:

your image: K-3 1/1250 f/10 ISO=500

my image: K-30 1/250 f/4 ISO=6400

Last edited by reh321; 11-06-2016 at 11:03 AM. Reason: stats
11-06-2016, 04:42 PM   #408
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The primary problem with my picture was the lack of light, which forced the K-30 into a very high ISO {for it} but still left it at limited DOF despite lowish shutter speed. A bridge camera would have been hopeless under those conditions; even my Q-7, with a sensor larger than a bridge camera, would have seriously struggled in that light.

added:

your image: K-3 1/1250 f/10 ISO=500

my image: K-30 1/250 f/4 ISO=6400
The problem here is to think the K70 would achieve something much better is quite optimistic...

Even if the K70 allowed virtually no noise, the subject is still soft, the light is still not so interresting and the photo lack punch. In fact the noise is the least visible issue on this shot.

You can go on explain how this shot would have a bit less noise on K70, this isn't the real issue.
11-06-2016, 05:19 PM   #409
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The corollary to the above is, when you get a really good image with a lot of noise, the noise usually doesn't bother you that much, The same noise on a bad image is much worse than the noise on a good image.

11-06-2016, 07:55 PM   #410
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The problem here is to think the K70 would achieve something much better is quite optimistic...

Even if the K70 allowed virtually no noise, the subject is still soft, the light is still not so interesting and the photo lack punch. In fact the noise is the least visible issue on this shot.

You can go on explain how this shot would have a bit less noise on K70, this isn't the real issue.
Those are your issues.
I already stipulated that the picture was taken in serious shade, so I don't expect the lighting to be interesting.
I don't claim to be an artist.
I already said this was with a thirty-year-old lens mounted on a doubler, so I would expect softness, and noise always accentuates softness and complicates sharpening and other adjustments in PP.
I'm not taking pictures for anyone else; I'm not trying to package "punch".
These issues of yours are all "straw men"; none of these issues is germane to this discussion, which is about what the K-70 can provide.
If I had posted a sharper image with more "interesting" lighting, you would have complained about the noise.

All I am saying is that I look forward to getting a K-70 {or a derivative of it} for the reason that it will enable me to take better pictures under poor lighting conditions, allowing me to use higher ISO settings {which will then enable higher shutter speeds and smaller apertures - both of which might contribute to improved sharpness} even times when you aren't excited by the light, and because it will eliminate the need for those constant f/2.8 lenses that you seem to focus your attention on; I am glad for a reasonably-priced system {K-70 + 55-300mm PLM} for those many relatives who have been put off by the cost and handling of a constant f/2.8 system.

You don't have to buy one.

Last edited by reh321; 11-06-2016 at 08:36 PM. Reason: extend thought
11-10-2016, 05:06 PM   #411
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I am glad for a reasonably-priced system {K-70 + 55-300mm PLM} for those many relatives who have been put off by the cost and handling of a constant f/2.8 system.
Interrestingly this is $1000 system or about that price. This isn't especially cheap. This is already in the upper price range. You could also get for the same price a 70-200 f/2.8 and a K50 if that what you wanted. Or for $600 a K50 and 17-50 f/2.8. Used you could have all 3. This isn't a price issue. This may be a handling issue but only for the 70-200, not the 17-70 or a DA50 f/1.8. At that price there lot of choice,

Counting you already have a camera, there really not that much insentive as anyway the problem on your photo is not even the noise. You buy theoretical improvement but the photo would look the same even with a K1 there. All camera can manage to get bad result quite easily.
11-10-2016, 08:31 PM   #412
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Interrestingly this is $1000 system or about that price. This isn't especially cheap. This is already in the upper price range. You could also get for the same price a 70-200 f/2.8 and a K50 if that what you wanted. Or for $600 a K50 and 17-50 f/2.8. Used you could have all 3. This isn't a price issue. This may be a handling issue but only for the 70-200, not the 17-70 or a DA50 f/1.8. At that price there lot of choice,

Counting you already have a camera, there really not that much insentive as anyway the problem on your photo is not even the noise. You buy theoretical improvement but the 🎆 would look the same even with a K1 there. All camera can manage to get bad result quite easily.
At least you maintain your fixation on f/2.8. None of your option is 300mm. Your comments on quality have no foundation.
11-25-2016, 02:05 PM   #413
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here's a review of the Pentax K-70 Shaking up the market: Pentax K-70 Review: Digital Photography Review

12-29-2016, 10:47 AM   #414
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Im thinking of getting a K-70 but isnt there going to be a new body coming out in 2017?

Will it be an advancement of the K-70 enthusiast or more in the K-3II pro body realm?

Or another consumer cute K-S2?
12-29-2016, 01:18 PM - 1 Like   #415
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2016 saw the release of two Pentax DSLR : K-1 and K-70.
2015 saw the release of two Pentax DSLR : K-3 II and K-S2.
2014 saw the release of two Pentax DSLR : 645z and K-S1
2013 saw the release of 2+1 Pentax DSLR : K-3 and K-50+K-500
2012 saw the release of 2+1 Pentax DSLR : K-5 II+IIs and K-30
There is a trend : each year, one DSLR with DLI109 batteries, one DSLR with DLI90 batteries.
12-29-2016, 04:33 PM   #416
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So your saying it maybe time for a couple new batteries.
12-29-2016, 07:15 PM   #417
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ptitboul Quote
2016 saw the release of two Pentax DSLR : K-1 and K-70.
2015 saw the release of two Pentax DSLR : K-3 II and K-S2.
2014 saw the release of two Pentax DSLR : 645z and K-S1
2013 saw the release of 2+1 Pentax DSLR : K-3 and K-50+K-500
2012 saw the release of 2+1 Pentax DSLR : K-5 II+IIs and K-30
There is a trend : each year, one DSLR with DLI109 batteries, one DSLR with DLI90 batteries.
Hmmm that is an interesting point. Yet I'm unsure if Pentax can continue that in 2017. K-1 is too fresh to launch another FF as is the K-70 for another mid tier body. So that leaves top end APS-C and perhaps MF ? Do we really think MF is due for a refresh in 2017?
12-29-2016, 08:02 PM   #418
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Hmmm that is an interesting point. Yet I'm unsure if Pentax can continue that in 2017. K-1 is too fresh to launch another FF as is the K-70 for another mid tier body. So that leaves top end APS-C and perhaps MF ? Do we really think MF is due for a refresh in 2017?
The most likely way to continue that trend would be to introduce a K-3iii and a K-07 {K-70 repackaged as an MILC}
12-29-2016, 09:28 PM   #419
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The most likely way to continue that trend would be to introduce a K-3iii and a K-07 {K-70 repackaged as an MILC}
Hmm. K-01 revisited? Put a really good EVF on it and it's a winner.
12-29-2016, 09:49 PM   #420
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The most likely way to continue that trend would be to introduce a K-3iii and a K-07 {K-70 repackaged as an MILC}
Perhaps. But if they do go that route, and it is just a brick without a proper EVF like the K-01, then I don't see it being any more successful than the K-01 itself was stateside.
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