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08-24-2016, 03:54 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
dpreview comparison
After poking around that scene, particularly at high ISO's like ISO 6400, it certainly seems Pentax have improved the JPEG engine and NR in the K-70, compared to for example the K-3 and K-S2. Good detail retention, and even the colours still hold together OK at high IS0.

Even slightly better high ISO JPEG renditions, IMHO, than other 24MP APS-C's like the Nikon D7200. Even better than Sony A6300, which seems to have very heavy NR smudging.

08-25-2016, 10:27 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
After poking around that scene, particularly at high ISO's like ISO 6400, it certainly seems Pentax have improved the JPEG engine and NR in the K-70, compared to for example the K-3 and K-S2. Good detail retention, and even the colours still hold together OK at high IS0.

Even slightly better high ISO JPEG renditions, IMHO, than other 24MP APS-C's like the Nikon D7200. Even better than Sony A6300, which seems to have very heavy NR smudging.
Thanks for summing up your conclusions--that saves me quite some time poking around!
08-25-2016, 04:10 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by wkraus Quote
that saves me quite some time poking around!
Now I feel guilty for being sloppy, and not posting some screen caps to justify my claims.
08-25-2016, 07:11 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Now I feel guilty for being sloppy, and not posting some screen caps to justify my claims.
I'm not going to post screen caps, either, but I have to say that I am quite impressed with the level of detail in both Jpg and Raws. The clean roll off of the photographed faces is also pretty impressive. Reds still aren't that great, but I can fix that.

Off-topic, If only they could take another 100g off the weight, and start releasing WR primes like the new 23mm F2 WR Fuji, I'd be a very happy man.

08-25-2016, 10:36 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
I'm not going to post screen caps, either, but I have to say that I am quite impressed with the level of detail in both Jpg and Raws. The clean roll off of the photographed faces is also pretty impressive. Reds still aren't that great, but I can fix that.

Off-topic, If only they could take another 100g off the weight, and start releasing WR primes like the new 23mm F2 WR Fuji, I'd be a very happy man.
100g feasible, Canon does it with a DSLR (but a Pentamirror). The 23mm f/2 from fuji doesn't look technically possible on K-mount. it depend heavily on a shorter registration distance. What possible on K-mount is DA21 f/3.2. You could think mirrorless are then much better. Until you understand the much shorter registration distance of mirrorless make DA70 pancake or FA77 impossible with the same size on Fuji mount but they do exist on K-mount !
08-26-2016, 04:30 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
100g feasible, Canon does it with a DSLR (but a Pentamirror). The 23mm f/2 from fuji doesn't look technically possible on K-mount. it depend heavily on a shorter registration distance. What possible on K-mount is DA21 f/3.2. You could think mirrorless are then much better. Until you understand the much shorter registration distance of mirrorless make DA70 pancake or FA77 impossible with the same size on Fuji mount but they do exist on K-mount !
Oh, I get the registration distance thing. In fact the DA70mm is still unmatched by anyone for the size/speed performance (plus, it's a very nice lens). Nothing wrong with the 21mm either. I am after a WR set of primes. Fuji is starting to deliver these in spades, and is (for me, anyway) stealing Pentax's lunch money.

On topic, this camera seems to be to be an updated version of the KX, but much better. There is a lot of tech within, and there is clearly an increased focus (no pun intended) on jpg quality.
08-26-2016, 01:24 PM - 1 Like   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Nicolas - in terms of sensor readout rates I agree, it doesn't seems that much is required. This is a bit academic though, as the sensor is not capable of 4K; so a new sensor (perhaps the existing 42MP one), capable of 4K and with pixel binning or interpolation (as opposed to skipping pixels which gives a lower quality) would be required anyway.

But, going back to bandwidth, the problem - as you noted - is not transferring the data from the sensor to RAM; but processing&compressing it on the flight. Milbeaut m8-m? Still feasible with available components (though not at K-1 prices)

Do a 4K RAW-capable camera, and you add the very nasty issue of writing data to storage really fast - this is the only situation where transfer rates would be an issue. I don't think Pentax would attempt this anytime soon.
I think full readout require BSI or similar and make the sensor much more complex and expensive. Just look at the A7R-II price or even A6300. You pay novelty and the sensor.

But I think you can manage some 4K feature or at least advanced 2K without that nasty sensor. As for compressing in realtime I mean a smartphone does it. The goPro do it, I don't see why the next APSC flagship could not handle it

Honestly I don't care for me, if I have choice between a good still feature like improved high iso in raw or better AF-C, I'll take it everyday toward the video feature. But I think while we don't need great or fantastic video support we might need just good enough so the camera doesn't get trolled by reviewers and alike. Theses days this may require 4K 30FPS, 2K 60FPS with good enough codec, no more and maybe benefiting on in body SR + external micro support.
08-26-2016, 04:53 PM   #83
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Well, the sensor is Sony's job - and it seems the 24MP APS-C sensor from the A6300 is quite good at 4K, the 42MP FF one has few issues but we can consider it a problem solved. The processor, I mentioned the Milbeaut m8-m which can compress 4k. I guess we're in agreement here, it's about deciding to do it (which also depends on us paying the price).
I'm not sure if the next APS-C flagship (shouldn't be long until we'll see it) would have 4K. It might be the last K-mount flagship without it.

08-27-2016, 02:06 AM   #84
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The chip won't be the main cost. 4k done well also needs a fast sensor, good cooling, uncompressed hdmi output, the right codecs for in camera recording. The simple fact a camera has 4k doesn't mean it is very usable. Shooting cropped, only for a few minutes are limitations with a lot of camera's that have 4k. Are we willing to pay for such a video dedicated camera?
08-27-2016, 02:53 AM   #85
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Speaking of which:
Don't get ahead of yourself: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV rolling shutter test: Digital Photography Review

But perhaps, as Nicolas said, they only need to make it "just good enough so the camera doesn't get trolled by reviewers and alike"
08-27-2016, 02:57 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
The chip won't be the main cost. 4k done well also needs a fast sensor, good cooling, uncompressed hdmi output, the right codecs for in camera recording. The simple fact a camera has 4k doesn't mean it is very usable. Shooting cropped, only for a few minutes are limitations with a lot of camera's that have 4k. Are we willing to pay for such a video dedicated camera?
Well, I don't care for uncompressed HDMI stuff that would work only on heavy setting with a recorder or other stuff like that. I don't want a video monster or whatever. I'd say manage to have 4K so you don't get trolled. Then for the rest, do it only if it nearly free in R&D.

To me the goal is not to make a still camera that does better video than the pro video camera for 10% of the price like some would like here. Pentax is not Red. The goal is to make just enough that the video mode is enjoyable and you can put a 4K sticker.
08-27-2016, 07:18 AM   #87
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I am quite surprised. The difference in the samples from DPReview between other Pentax DSLRs are huge, compared to the ones from ImagingResource.
I guess the new Sensor even clearly tops the K-3 in keeping Details at high ISO sensitivity.
08-27-2016, 11:00 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tau-Ceti Quote
I am quite surprised. The difference in the samples from DPReview between other Pentax DSLRs are huge, compared to the ones from ImagingResource.
I guess the new Sensor even clearly tops the K-3 in keeping Details at high ISO sensitivity.
The scene isn't the same and I think the raw processing neither, when raw is used. For high iso performance, the choice of your post processing software and setting may be as important as the choice of camera.

If for example the camera does more by itself, you have less to do in the software, making the older camera look bad.
08-27-2016, 04:50 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
....
If for example the camera does more by itself, you have less to do in the software, making the older camera look bad.
That depends entirely on the scenario you envision.
I believe an important market will be for true amateurs - as I've said many times before, indoor photos by parents/grandparents for sports and other performances.
If the camera does more by itself, then this audience loses virtually nothing by eschewing PP.
08-27-2016, 05:03 PM   #90
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We just don't have enough information about the NR accelerator unit. I can't wait to see some real tests, see whether it has different settings, how well it works in combination with raw (well, its not really raw if you apply NR, right??), how it works in video, whether it is good or bad at ISO 100..

I will add that if Noise is a concern, you will want to use specialized software, as it is often better than the stock NR or various raw editors. Topaz Denoise, Nik Efex Define (now free, but works with uncompressed tiff only), and some others. Things are evolving quickly when it comes to NR and sharpening, and PP in general. This makes a big difference and might be something OP can try already, before making a purchase.
Finally, shooting itself can help with noise. Using low ISO is obvious, but techniques like ETTR can help as well. Applying PP like adding brightness and contrast and saturation and sharpening will usually make the noise more apparent, so being mindful of using certain PP techniques will be helpful as well.

Edit: Ugh, I thought this was another thread, so ignore parts of this post... I don't feel like deleting it, as it is still kinda relevant
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