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07-06-2016, 07:44 PM   #31
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I am happy with responses received and do not want to create unwarranted controversy. If mods want to delete my thread, I have no objection.



10-20-2016, 05:12 PM - 1 Like   #32
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Dumb move by Ricoh unless they got it all very cheap

you do not need Eye-Fi server software to get the auto upload features of X2 Pro cards - there's a superior way that bypasses the whole flaky system

The Peak Oil Poet: How I saved my Eye-Fi X2 Pro from uselessness on Android

X2 Pro cards are superior to Mobi cards for that reason

what's more, if Ricoh is relying on the Eye-Fi team for cloud innovation then they will quickly be overtaken by any other company that employes bright young cloud savy grads who know better

Eye-Fi's cloud system has always been dreadful but it was the best available until we worked out how to get better service, for free, from simple mash-ups

dumb dumb move Ricoh
10-21-2016, 12:50 AM   #33
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You are assuming that Ricoh bought EyeCloud Services only for uploading images from the X2 Pro cards. But is this really the case?
Usually the most aggressive attacks at Pentax/Ricoh's competence are just the attacker making some silly assumptions.

By the way, Ricoh is into document management.
10-21-2016, 01:06 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by murrayp Quote
you do not need Eye-Fi server software to get the auto upload features of X2 Pro cards - there's a superior way that bypasses the whole flaky system

The Peak Oil Poet: How I saved my Eye-Fi X2 Pro from uselessness on Android

X2 Pro cards are superior to Mobi cards for that reason

what's more, if Ricoh is relying on the Eye-Fi team for cloud innovation then they will quickly be overtaken by any other company that employes bright young cloud savy grads who know better

Eye-Fi's cloud system has always been dreadful but it was the best available until we worked out how to get better service, for free, from simple mash-ups

dumb dumb move Ricoh
I have no idea about price for such a service, but buying Internet Enterprises tend to be expensive compared to real physical company's.

Ricoh did mention it in an interview.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/6090989405/ricoh-aims-for-visual-revolution-ph...2016-interview

QuoteQuote:
‘The cloud side can play a role. These two [connectivity and the cloud] can provide a new era of visuals. Ricoh acquired Eye-Fi’s cloud service, and this is one step to creating new solutions of communication and storage. Not just from the point of view of taking pictures but from the back end as well.'
So at least it is connected to the imaging business for camera's. I don't think the old card are needed anymore, since wifi is in the hardware today. Maybe it is intended for future Theta streaming.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Usually the most aggressive attacks at Pentax/Ricoh's competence are just the attacker making some silly assumptions.
Most attacks by Pentaxtian's are based on little knowledge.

10-21-2016, 01:57 AM   #35
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QuoteQuote:
Most attacks by Pentaxtian's are based on little knowledge.
You shouldn't consider yourself a pentaxian anymore Ron.
10-21-2016, 05:49 AM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
You shouldn't consider yourself a pentaxian anymore Ron.
I use a Pentax pen on a daily base.
10-22-2016, 06:40 PM   #37
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no i'm not - i'm assuming they bought the cloud services so that they could get some value from pentax customers sending their pictures to their cloud storage system

here are some possibilities

1. they want to start accumulating massive numbers of pics so they can develop some deep learning SW (iwc they would have been better off buying someone already doing this)
2. they are wanting something that gives them a marketing edge on cameras that only let you wirelessly access and control the camera - ie a back end with smarts to process your pics (pointless losing battle)
3. they want to trap Pentax users into a service they can then effectively force them to pay for - cloud based pic processing of various kinds (didn't work for Eye-Fi did it)
4. they want to trap Pentax users in a service that they can't live without and more importantly can't migrate to Canon or Nikon etc
5. other reasons (go ahead and suggest some)

It's difficult for camera makers to know how to build the camera OS. At the moment most cameras are like Nokia - with a proprietary and somewhat simplistic OS. What beat Nokia? Effectively it was Unix on a phone - iOS and Android. Unless they head towards an "Android" solution for cameras they will all spend silly money on things. Does a camera get 2 or 3 or more different communications systems or does it just need one to talk to your phone? Does the camera completely by-pass other devices like phone or PC and connect directly with a cloud service or does it leverage the humungously big amount of apps and systems already there? Do cameras have to have app stores so we can install the sw we want on the camera?

See, they don't really know for sure what direction to go but i would bet that moving cameras to Android would open up enormous opportunities for the camera companies while at the same time heading them towards LCD commoditisation - but then it's all about camera tech - and not enormous and potentially loss-causing investment in yet another camera OS

the interesting thing about the X2 cards is that they are in general more powerful than other cards - so many camera owners just want to be able to connect to their camera, browse through the pics and share them on facebook or whatever but that's such a limited view of camera tech and the potential markets and uses of good cameras

imagine i'm in a battle field - every time i lift my head to click a shot might be the end of my camera or me or both - i want those pics going straight to the world - if there was to be any value adding to the pics it might be filtering out ones that look like other pics i've just taken or that would not either fetch me income or go anywhere (which is the same thing)

my view of art photographers - those who have all the time in the time in the world to take a few RAW pics, post process them on a computer, then send them somewhere - well yeh that's nice if that's what you like doing

but i don't - i was taught that if you do not compose your shoots well you'll spend all your time post processing and waste to much time to have meaning or relevance

the X2 gave me what i wanted and i suspect that what i wanted was what Pentax recognised as a useful/cool/marketable thing - and that's why they went for it - plus whatever hype the Eye-Fi guys sold them

but it's all unnecessary

you only need to get the pics off the camera as they are taken (called "push" as opposed to "pull") and you need to be able to designate exactly where those pics are going and what exactly happens to them and in what order and at what time

with an X2 card and an Android app plus a mash-up you can do exactly that

so unless Pentax/Ricoh has some specific other point then they have wasted their money

it would not be the first time a company has done that - in fact the list of IT acquisitions that turned out to be write-downs is way way bigger than the list that wasn't

Ricoh made a mistake

Eye-Fi server SW is junk, flaky and pointless

that's my view now that i've achieved the same as their service with a simple mash-up. No, not the same, much better - more stable, no errors, faster and with better control.

Ricoh should look into that before they wast any more money on a team that has one half way descent HW hack and that's about all
10-23-2016, 01:42 AM   #38
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Tl;dl. It's all a long speculation made to lead towards a "Pentax/Ricoh suxx" conclusion, anyway.

10-23-2016, 02:15 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Tl;dl. It's all a long speculation made to lead towards a "Pentax/Ricoh suxx" conclusion, anyway.
The bright sight to this is that all Japanese camera brands suck when it comes to offering cloud service that is really helpfull in this digital age. Wheater it is a teenager that wants to Snap, or a nature photographer standing somewhere in the field with his images.
10-23-2016, 02:26 AM   #40
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"Camera brands"? Is Ricoh a camera brand? Is Ricoh Innovations Corporation a camera company?
10-23-2016, 02:30 AM   #41
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We don't need hardware manufacturers for cloud services. They are already here. Google photo's search is amazing (I use it just as a library because the one in lightroom sucks for usability).
10-23-2016, 02:38 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
"Camera brands"? Is Ricoh a camera brand? Is Ricoh Innovations Corporation a camera company?
The sad part may be that there is little to nothing between those two company's.

In 2012 I was at Photokina at the stand from Samsung. In my hands the NX210. It had a social media sharing option. So I made a selfie on the stand and put it with help from the Samsung rep and some patients on my Facebookpagina. Directly from the camera to my Facebookpagina. This should be a standard today, without using a smartphone, but in reality it's not possible. Yes Samsung isn't on the page anymore, but that is not a good excuses to ignore the digital age we all live in now.
10-23-2016, 02:48 AM   #43
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So it's not good if Ricoh acquires a Cloud service company for their cameras division because we don't need it, but it's also it's not good when a separate Ricoh division is buying it because "there is little to nothing between those two company's"?
Is this a good summary for what I'm reading here?
10-23-2016, 04:55 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
So it's not good if Ricoh acquires a Cloud service company for their cameras division because we don't need it, but it's also it's not good when a separate Ricoh division is buying it because "there is little to nothing between those two company's"?
Is this a good summary for what I'm reading here?
No. .
10-23-2016, 06:53 AM   #45
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Ricoh has a long history of buying office equipment companies whose technology has been superseded. An example is GESTETNER, manufacturer of mimeograph machines and mechanical drafting tools (and some more modern stuff). Such companies own valuable patents and distribution networks that can serve as a source of base corporate knowledge, manufacturing processes that have value and marketing / distribution infrastructure. I wouldn't be surprised if Ricoh bought something like Tiffen (a private company) just for the distribution and access to Dealers - not that the related products would hurt anything.

You have to look beneath the obvious surface reasons for an acquisition to understand the benefit. I'd bet EyeFi's hosting service came with many many underlying valuable components.

Last edited by monochrome; 10-23-2016 at 07:02 AM.
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