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12-01-2016, 11:03 AM   #241
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@MJKoski:
So a bunch of numbers represents a more "practical comparison"?

Anyway, the question was not addressed to you - and I'm afraid I don't fully trust your evaluations, given that you were generally unhappy with Pentax (and Pentaxians) from your firsts posts here. I'd like Nicolas06 to say what he meant by "high ISO" and which Canon cameras are better, and how.

12-01-2016, 11:28 AM   #242
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Canon sensor are astonishingly good at loosing image detail at high ISO:
Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review

Maybe they do some fudging around with raw denoising? At least the Canon 1DX line is famous for pre-cooked raws.
12-09-2016, 05:14 AM   #243
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
That is not practical comparison. Practical comparison is to expose milky way and try to get it pop.
How is a scenario that maybe 0.1% of photographers regularly encounter a more practical comparison than a test scene of various objects?

QuoteQuote:
I looked at the link and compared 5D Mk IV, K-1 and D810. The former has a minuscule advantage after ISO 3,200 to ISO18,000, while the latter both have an advantage up to ISO600 or so, and a very sizeable advantage of over 1 stop at base ISO. Calling Sony sensor images only usable until ISO3,200 because the 5D Mk IV is less than half a stop better beyond that is just silly.
12-10-2016, 10:09 AM   #244
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That is how it is. Sony 36MP chip is tripod device for ISO100 exposures. Nothing else.

12-10-2016, 10:49 AM - 1 Like   #245
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You don't know what you're talking about. Or worse - you do know.
12-10-2016, 02:21 PM - 1 Like   #246
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
That is how it is. Sony 36MP chip is tripod device for ISO100 exposures. Nothing else.
(Laughs)

The problem with the eccentric insight you've given us into your mind and opinions, MJKoski, is that it damages the credibility of whatever you say in the future on other topics.
12-10-2016, 02:33 PM   #247
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There are better devices for day to day shooting like Nikon Df (D4) sensor which is more friendly for high ISO prints in large size. Thing is I would not use any Sony 36MP camera for paid work where speed is of essence.
12-10-2016, 03:20 PM - 1 Like   #248
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Oh? And by "high ISO" you mean ISO200?

I'm starting to question your K-1 images in your gallery. It just isn't possible to own and use a tool, and hate it so much.


Last edited by Kunzite; 12-11-2016 at 01:18 AM.
12-10-2016, 10:57 PM - 1 Like   #249
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
. Thing is I would not use any Sony 36MP camera for paid work where speed is of essence.
Bizarre. I have shot sports, wildlife and street photography with the K-1 - why aren't you capable?
12-11-2016, 02:55 AM   #250
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
There are better devices for day to day shooting like Nikon Df (D4) sensor which is more friendly for high ISO prints in large size. Thing is I would not use any Sony 36MP camera for paid work where speed is of essence.
Strange that Nikon has selected the same sensor for their cameras.

If you aim high for night photography, I suggest you use a military grade sensor. There are excellent sensors designed for low light, with lower dark currents and nitrogen cooled to reduce noise. In comparison to special military sensors, the low light performance of the Df (D4) is a consumer gimmick. And you were not satisfied with the resolution of the DFA15-30 and even the Zeiss 21, so I can't imagine that you'd be satisfied with the 16Mpixels of the Df.

Now, lets keep expectations reasonable, Df (D4) is not the best in terms of low light capability, the PENTAX 645Z would easily outperform the Df :-) , and PENTAX 645Z is a lot cheaper than military application.

Every camera system is a trade-off, and that's why there are camera models for every taste. You'll never get around this. The only time when trade-off is shifted is by solving a contradiction and it usually is patented, that's when the factor of merit of technology moves forward.

For the time being, take a look at the PENTAX 645Z.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 12-11-2016 at 03:15 AM.
12-11-2016, 11:23 PM   #251
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Now, lets keep expectations reasonable, Df (D4) is not the best in terms of low light capability, the PENTAX 645Z would easily outperform the Df :-) , and PENTAX 645Z is a lot cheaper than military application.
For the 645Z to compete with a FF for low light camera it first needs as fast equivalent lenses as available to FF
12-11-2016, 11:51 PM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
For the 645Z to compete with a FF for low light camera it first needs as fast equivalent lenses as available to FF
Good point , correct to some extent, that's about equivalence, equivalence having some limits (i.e IQ is generally still better from larger equivalent format, so was the debate about u4/3 vs apsc vs FF). I still believe sensor long exposure noise is also related to pixel design and pixel size, my point was that the 645Z would feature same pixel size as a Df but with more resolution. I've seen very good sky images from Pentax ambassador using the 645Z: https://www.pentaxforums.com/articles/pro-pentaxians/pentaxian-profile-michel....html#readmore

Last edited by biz-engineer; 12-11-2016 at 11:58 PM.
12-28-2016, 05:04 PM   #253
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
For the 645Z to compete with a FF for low light camera it first needs as fast equivalent lenses as available to FF
This is "true" in any sense where speed matters. In my experience, the images from my Z far* outstrip nearly identical images taken with my A7R (no longer have it, sold to help finance a K1 so I could be all Pentax....no knock on the A7R, fine camera...), identical meaning same subject, shutter speeds, iso's, same aperture equivalents, etc., for night shots with and without flash. The differences were obvious to me in the tonal gradations in the darks and roll-offs to the darks, even on a computer screen.

So, for slow, deep dof photography where fast glass is not necessary the Z is superior in my opinion to any FF results I've seen.

* It's an opinion, based on empirical results and a healthy degree of subjective judgement. Yes, note that last bit. But I have a keenly trained eye (I won't recount my CV unless you ask... ;-} ), and those of us who do, and I'll include you, certainly, understand that the fine points, utterly lost on most, actually loom large for us.
12-28-2016, 05:31 PM   #254
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
This is "true" in any sense where speed matters. In my experience, the images from my Z far* outstrip nearly identical images taken with my A7R (no longer have it, sold to help finance a K1 so I could be all Pentax....no knock on the A7R, fine camera...), identical meaning same subject, shutter speeds, iso's, same aperture equivalents, etc., for night shots with and without flash. The differences were obvious to me in the tonal gradations in the darks and roll-offs to the darks, even on a computer screen.

So, for slow, deep dof photography where fast glass is not necessary the Z is superior in my opinion to any FF results I've seen.

* It's an opinion, based on empirical results and a healthy degree of subjective judgement. Yes, note that last bit. But I have a keenly trained eye (I won't recount my CV unless you ask... ;-} ), and those of us who do, and I'll include you, certainly, understand that the fine points, utterly lost on most, actually loom large for us.
That's the biggest problem with equivalence. It focuses on wide open performance. But I warrant that few photos -- even portraits -- are actually taken wide open. And so, the presence or absence of an 85mm f1.4 or 35mm f1.4 equivalent lens for a given system isn't terribly important.

I like my full frame camera, but from what I have seen from medium format images, they are a step above what I get from a K-1.
12-29-2016, 01:41 AM   #255
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IMO the biggest problem with equivalence is that it tells you to use different formats as to hide the differences, and not how to use each format to your advantage.
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