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10-29-2016, 07:54 PM   #76
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Financial Data > Financial Resul... | Global | Ricoh

---------- Post added 10-29-16 at 08:01 PM ----------

http://www.ricoh.com/IR/data/pre/pdf/h29q2_1.pdf

10-29-2016, 09:30 PM - 1 Like   #77
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Thank you for the info !
Not that bad for the tiny "others" segment, which actually is the one that doesn't see it's income diminishing (yoy sales volume +6%, +8% incl. Forex), and doubling it's op. margin from +1,3 to +2,6%.
Pentax doesn't seems to be doomed anymore

Last edited by Zygonyx; 10-29-2016 at 09:36 PM.
10-30-2016, 12:32 AM   #78
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Nikon, Canon user jumping ship

QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Thank you for the info !
Not that bad for the tiny "others" segment, which actually is the one that doesn't see it's income diminishing (yoy sales volume +6%, +8% incl. Forex), and doubling it's op. margin from +1,3 to +2,6%.
Pentax doesn't seems to be doomed anymore
In a market which is collapsing by -20 to -30% this year again, where Nikon, Canon are also loosing customer business in the -20 to -30% range, growing by +6% can mean nothing but a sizeable amount of buyers jumping off the sinking Nikon, Canon, whatever ship to Ricoh.

Boy, we are seeing a +25% better performance compared to the Nikon, Canon etc. Stable sales in that market would have been an outstanding performance, let alone growing by +6%.

Obviously not every customer is only looking at MTF charts and screwed up tripod bicycle setups, but does look first to total value of product. No value, no buy.

We will soon see how the other players perform in business terms compared.
10-30-2016, 02:18 AM   #79
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There are more things to read in reports published. ofcourse these numbers look great, since they are compared to the same financial periode last year. That was the low period for Pentax, due to not having the K-1 in portfolio.

Compared to the previous quarter it is different. The sales for the Other-segment to overseas areas, wich should be mainly camera, did get a dip. Sales went down from 4925 million yen down in Q1 to 3687 million yen in the last Q2. So the sales went down a lot, Q2 is only 2/3th of Q1.

Now is that a surprise or a problem?
I don't think so. In Q1 the K-1 was launched and had a good start with sales of camera's produced in that quarter, but also sales for the production that started in march 2016. The production was interrupted during that quarter due to the quake. In Q2 the production was mostly interrupted due to the quake and only partial (of the planned production) outcome of the factory on produced camera's was available for sales.

Let's see how the current quarter Q3 will run, since now there is almost no problem related to the quake.


Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 10-30-2016 at 03:00 AM.
10-30-2016, 07:04 AM - 1 Like   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
There are more things to read in reports published. ofcourse these numbers look great, since they are compared to the same financial periode last year. That was the low period for Pentax, due to not having the K-1 in portfolio.

Compared to the previous quarter it is different. The sales for the Other-segment to overseas areas, wich should be mainly camera, did get a dip. Sales went down from 4925 million yen down in Q1 to 3687 million yen in the last Q2. So the sales went down a lot, Q2 is only 2/3th of Q1.

Now is that a surprise or a problem?
I don't think so. In Q1 the K-1 was launched and had a good start with sales of camera's produced in that quarter, but also sales for the production that started in march 2016. The production was interrupted during that quarter due to the quake. In Q2 the production was mostly interrupted due to the quake and only partial (of the planned production) outcome of the factory on produced camera's was available for sales.

Let's see how the current quarter Q3 will run, since now there is almost no problem related to the quake.
I think the problem when comparing Q1 to Q2 or Q2 to Q3 is that the business is not constant all the year. That's why statistics typically compare to previous year. But yes it is then difficult to see short term change.

If guess if you first normalize data for seasonal effect, then compare you can see if the business is going strong or not.

Next problem is that of course a new product at least on what concern us: cameras and lenses is going to sell more while it is new and that even sales may count shipment that will occur later on. And while the FF offering in term of body is very attractive, the APSC line is with old product for entry level (K50/KS1), a product that a bit expensive for mid range (K70), and again old product for flagship (K3, K3-II).

In the end between all of this, it is a bit complex to conclude.
10-30-2016, 07:52 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Boy, we are seeing a +25% better performance compared to the Nikon, Canon etc. Stable sales in that market would have been an outstanding performance, let alone growing by +6%.

We will soon see how the other players perform in business terms compared.
QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I think the problem when comparing Q1 to Q2 or Q2 to Q3 is that the business is not constant all the year. That's why statistics typically compare to previous year. But yes it is then difficult to see short term change.
In the end between all of this, it is a bit complex to conclude.
I agree, we need to wait to see how Canon and Nikon perform this quarter to know the context.

Nikon has the most detailed numbers so far, so it will be easy to compare the +6% against their next numbers:




Maybe Nikon can also stabilize their sales and even win something back like Ricoh? They certainly need it.

Go extrapolate when these lines are going to hit zero.
10-30-2016, 08:12 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Go extrapolate when these lines are going to hit zero.
Before when line where going up people where expecting it would never end, just projecting. Now that they go down, they expect it to go to zero. They get it can't go negative lol... If we exclude Samsung Galaxy S7 returns lol. But things never stay linear for ever.

There still even some range finder sold and some film bodies sold and I think there nothing yet that can fully replace to top of line DSLRs but it may be in 5 years from now, that only the top of line is DSLR and that only a tiny part of the rest would still be DSLR. That maybe is half today sales or something because of course top of line is expensive and come with high margins...

And if in the meantime, the companies manage to sell something else to compensate, well that shouldn't be a problem at all. Canon and Ricoh have no issue there, Sony neither. They have many products. I agree that Nikon is in a corner if they don't find something to replace the lost sales.
10-30-2016, 08:24 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
There still even some range finder sold and some film bodies sold and I think there nothing yet that can fully replace to top of line DSLRs but it may be in 5 years from now, that only the top of line is DSLR and that only a tiny part of the rest would still be DSLR. That maybe is half today sales or something because of course top of line is expensive and come with high margins...
I fully agree that basically no product ever goes fully extinct. But it still can hurt a company to go from mainstream into niche. Pentax did that in the past.

On the other side we have the current analogue film game changers impacting. Fuji is already selling more film cameras than Nikon digital ILC and next year certainly more than Canon as well. That is hugely profitable and those are bought by the young people.

10-30-2016, 08:59 AM   #84
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Most ship jumpers go to Sony and their MILC offerings.

And as soon as FF MILC is released by the big two people go back. Very simple.

Last edited by MJKoski; 10-30-2016 at 09:08 AM.
10-30-2016, 05:43 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
Most ship jumpers go to Sony and their MILC offerings.

And as soon as FF MILC is released by the big two people go back. Very simple.
Or not... Pentax was the leader at some point. They did a few errors and people didn't go back yet... Right now people don't know Pentax and think all is about Canikon.

If Canikon let too much advance to Sony, they may never get back what they lost.
10-30-2016, 07:39 PM - 1 Like   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
the forum bubble view
Hunting for it high and low; here she is, the infamous forum bubble !

Last edited by Schraubstock; 11-15-2016 at 03:09 AM.
10-30-2016, 08:16 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
Hunting for it high and low; here she is, the infamous forum bubble !

What that bubble formed through a similar manner as this cartoon bubble?
10-30-2016, 09:39 PM - 1 Like   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
I agree, we need to wait to see how Canon and Nikon perform this quarter to know the context.

Nikon has the most detailed numbers so far, so it will be easy to compare the +6% against their next numbers:




Maybe Nikon can also stabilize their sales and even win something back like Ricoh? They certainly need it.

Go extrapolate when these lines are going to hit zero.


Look at that spike when Nikon released the D3/D300/D700 in 2007/2008. WOW!

They nailed what the market wanted and have not been able to repeat that since... They have not released a compelling total camera package since, and forget about 3 in row...


Canon with a $3500 5D4 is in the same sinking boat.


If Ricoh/Pentax can execute the lenses soon, (6 months,) the K1 will sell even better.

Last edited by Qwntm; 10-31-2016 at 12:11 PM.
10-31-2016, 12:18 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
They nailed what the market wanted and have not been able to repeat that since... Canon with a $3500 5D4 is in the same sinking boat.
This isn't about Canon/Nikon not providing what the market want. This isn't about having more AF points, providing a bit better high iso, a bigger sensor or a new lens. This is about that mostly if you brought a camera, regardless of the brand in the last 5 years, there no real reason to upgrade. The old one is good enough. People are satisfied with their current gear.

There no killer feature that make one want to buy the new one, so one doesn't do it... And the market become a saturated market where people update when the old one is really old or isn't working anymore.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 10-31-2016 at 01:26 AM. Reason: Edited quoted post
10-31-2016, 01:20 AM - 2 Likes   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
If Ricoh/Pentax can execute the lenses soon, (6 months,) the K1 will sell even better.
I know these are the complaints at review sites. I really think that having an incomplete sales channel is a bigger problem in the end.
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