[biz-engineer]

The USA market Division, however, is a disaster. I don't believe they have a working plan for the USA.

Perhaps they believe they can't fight Canikon in the USA due to different consumer buying decision model. Strangely, Pentax does very well in France where they probably the most sales of Pentax camera versus number of inhabitant. In the USA, as always, big is beautiful, you want a big 4WD truck, smoke a cigar and stick a 600 f4 out the window, 800mm f5.6 even better. That's were Canon and Nikon have big: 400 f2.8, 600 f4, 800 f5.6. In Europe , if you have a Fiat 500, you stick a DFA150450 out the window and it looks big, so you are fine with small ego boost.

[Zygonyx]

^^ Hehe, i like this

[MJKoski]

Nononoo...correct way would be shooting small MILC from the Fiat with tiny lens. And after you get the shot you take the Fiat to the field and drive donuts in front of those big bazookas.

[monochrome]

Perhaps they believe they can't fight Canikon in the USA due to different consumer buying decision model. Strangely, Pentax does very well in France where they probably the most sales of Pentax camera versus number of inhabitant. In the USA, as always, big is beautiful, you want a big 4WD truck, smoke a cigar and stick a 600 f4 out the window, 800mm f5.6 even better. That's were Canon and Nikon have big: 400 f2.8, 600 f4, 800 f5.6. In Europe , if you have a Fiat 500, you stick a DFA150450 out the window and it looks big, so you are fine with small ego boost.

I know about France.

Dealers in the USA expect the manufacturer to finance 100% of their inventory, offer volume discount, ad sharing, merchandise return credit, support with television and print ad, sales incentives, Rep support in-store, domestic inventory, repair service, warranties, store displays - they essentially want the manufacturer to do everything. Asahi started pulling back from these requirements in the 80's, opening the door for Canon, Olympus, Minolta and Nikon (professional) to take their market of Dealers.

Hoya completely shut down the USA, making it an Amazon, B&H and Adorama distribution system, without enough manufacturing capacity to get in a Walmart, Target, BestBuy and the other boxes.

It should be a textbook study of how NOT to manage a market.

[RonHendriks1966]

I know about France.

Dealers in the USA expect the manufacturer to finance 100% of their inventory, offer volume discount, ad sharing, merchandise return credit, support with television and print ad, sales incentives, Rep support in-store, domestic inventory, repair service, warranties, store displays - they essentially want the manufacturer to do everything. Asahi started pulling back from these requirements in the 80's, opening the door for Canon, Olympus, Minolta and Nikon (professional) to take their market of Dealers.

Hoya completely shut down the USA, making it an Amazon, B&H and Adorama distribution system, without enough manufacturing capacity to get in a Walmart, Target, BestBuy and the other boxes.

It should be a textbook study of how NOT to manage a market.

That doesn't sound like they ever get back in that market with a big presents.

[LightBug]

I know about France.

Dealers in the USA expect the manufacturer to finance 100% of their inventory, offer volume discount, ad sharing, merchandise return credit, support with television and print ad, sales incentives, Rep support in-store, domestic inventory, repair service, warranties, store displays - they essentially want the manufacturer to do everything. Asahi started pulling back from these requirements in the 80's, opening the door for Canon, Olympus, Minolta and Nikon (professional) to take their market of Dealers.

Hoya completely shut down the USA, making it an Amazon, B&H and Adorama distribution system, without enough manufacturing capacity to get in a Walmart, Target, BestBuy and the other boxes.

It should be a textbook study of how NOT to manage a market.

I am perfectly comfortable buying from just Amazon, B&H and Adorama these days. Brick and mortar store prices are usually higher, and Amazon prime makes shipping really fast. I think the main issue in U.S. is name recognition. Many people do not know Pentax or trust it. When I got my K100D 9 years ago, one person asked me "does it actually take pictures?" My friend's wife tried my K-30 for a while, she ended up buying Nikon 5300 two lens kit from Costco with no input from me whatsoever, it was expensive too! Maybe with the aperture lever failure, it's best I did not advise her Anyway, first time buyers are not hobbyists, they usually don't do enough research to know there are good choices outside of Canikon.

[reh321]

I am perfectly comfortable buying from just Amazon, B&H and Adorama these days. Brick and mortar store prices are usually higher, and Amazon prime makes shipping really fast. I think the main issue in U.S. is name recognition. Many people do not know Pentax or trust it. When I got my K100D 9 years ago, one person asked me "does it actually take pictures?" My friend's wife tried my K-30 for a while, she ended up buying Nikon 5300 two lens kit from Costco with no input from me whatsoever, it was expensive too! Maybe with the aperture lever failure, it's best I did not advise her Anyway, first time buyers are not hobbyists, they usually don't do enough research to know there are good choices outside of Canikon.

At the other photo discussion forum where I'm a regular, the advice usually given to an uncertain someone is "handle both and see which feels best in your hands"; Pentax never gets an audition.

Often someone will just wander into a camera department and choose from those on display; Pentax never gets an audition.

etc, etc, etc

I don't know how it is in other countries, but in the USA, camera displays are an essential part of the marketing process. Pentax will have trouble expanding their "tent" if they don't have a Brick & Mortar presence.

---

Last edited by reh321; 11-08-2016 at 03:46 PM.

[monochrome]

I am perfectly comfortable buying from just Amazon, B&H and Adorama these days. Brick and mortar store prices are usually higher, and Amazon prime makes shipping really fast. I think the main issue in U.S. is name recognition. Many people do not know Pentax or trust it. When I got my K100D 9 years ago, one person asked me "does it actually take pictures?" My friend's wife tried my K-30 for a while, she ended up buying Nikon 5300 two lens kit from Costco with no input from me whatsoever, it was expensive too! Maybe with the aperture lever failure, it's best I did not advise her Anyway, first time buyers are not hobbyists, they usually don't do enough research to know there are good choices outside of Canikon.

My K-1 preorder was confirmed by my big New York Dealer as March 30 ship until March 28, when it changed to Backordered (or were the release dates / buy dates end of April / early May - I forget). The New York Dealer I've used for years essentially said, "Too bad. So sad. Good luck getting it somewhere else."

April 7th I went to a local Dealer and bought one off the shelf, and bought a 28~105 unplanned just because the sales person was nice, knew the brand, talked intelligently about lenses and 645z, threw in a 64Gb Lexar card, a cheap Bower flash and stand and a coupon good for a year.

I am now a Dealer convert. We're the best/worst kind.

[mecrox]

My K-1 preorder was confirmed as March 30 until March 28, when it switched to Backordered. The New York Dealer I've used for years essentially said, "Too bad. So sad. Good luck getting it somewhere else."

April 7th I went to a local Dealer and bought one off the shelf, and bought a 28~105 unplanned just because the sales person was nice, knew the brand, talked intelligently about lenses and 645z, threw in a 64Gb Lexar card, a cheap Bower flash and stand and a coupon good for a year.

I am now a Dealer convert. We're the best/worst kind.

Lol, that's why I've bought most of my stuff from the same store in a nothing-special part of outer London for a decade now. They always do deals, they'll part exchange and they know their cameras and photography. Even if it is a free lens pouch I didn't ask for, they nearly always put a little goodie in the bag. They know how to keep their customers.

[clackers]

I don't know whether the same trends are followed elsewhere, but in Australia the tendency for domestic appliances and consumer electronics was for the buyer to research online, go into a B&M really just to check the choices out, then go home and complete an order online from somewhere.

I don't think anyone should hitch their wagon to real shopfronts these days. People even now seemed to have changed their pattern and aren't going into the store at all, skipping the middle step.

I would have thought there will be less camera shops in the future, not more.

[photoptimist]

I don't know whether the same trends are done elsewhere, but in Australia the tendency for domestic appliances and consumer electronics was for the buyer to research online, go into a B&M really just to check the choices out, then go home and complete an order online from somewhere.

I don't think anyone should hitch their wagon to real shopfronts these days. People even now seemed to have changed their pattern and aren't going into the store at all, skipping the middle step.

I would have thought there will be less camera shops in the future, not more.

Sad, but true!

In the US, foot traffic in shopping malls is down about 40%. The stores try to compete but there's too many people looking in the store but then buying online from someone who doesn't have to include the high cost of a store in the city.

[mecrox]

I don't know whether the same trends are done elsewhere, but in Australia the tendency for domestic appliances and consumer electronics was for the buyer to research online, go into a B&M really just to check the choices out, then go home and complete an order online from somewhere.

I don't think anyone should hitch their wagon to real shopfronts these days. People even now seemed to have changed their pattern and aren't going into the store at all, skipping the middle step.

I would have thought there will be less camera shops in the future, not more.

Yes, camera shops are surely an endangered species. But this still leaves one wondering what Ricoh would like to do about their network in the USA and perhaps in parts of Europe too. Perhaps they sell so predominantly into Japan that it's not a priority. I just don't know but things don't seem to have changed much for a few years now. OTOH all that brand recognition marketing stuff is hugely expensive. Maybe the sums don't add up.

[clackers]

Perhaps they sell so predominantly into Japan that it's not a priority.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Gary.

I think it's nothing new. There was some stat someone produced last year that seemed to suggest Pentax's sales are overwhelmingly domestic.

It's probably been that way for decades, now.

As an executive, you always consider spending more money in a market where you're under-represented and that's expanding.

But we're talking about the camera industry!

For various reasons, it won't end up like video stores, but there's still plenty of room to fall from the giddy days of 2011-12 when Nikon and others decided to open up new manufacturing facilities.

[Dipsoid]

Hoya completely shut down the USA, making it an Amazon, B&H and Adorama distribution system, without enough manufacturing capacity to get in a Walmart, Target, BestBuy and the other boxes.

It should be a textbook study of how NOT to manage a market.

Actually, Pentax K-50s were featured in Target, it's one of the reasons I decided to buy into Pentax, I picked up a K-50 and compared to how crappy even a 70d felt, went home and bought a K-3 which I had been eyeing during my camera research. I might have bought into Nikon if I couldn't touch a Pentax in person. Unfortunately, Target only carried the K-50 with its crummy screwdriver kit lens and nothing else. I could easily see soccer-moms passing up on the cheaper, better quality Pentax as soon as they hear that sound.

I think Pentax could slowly make headway in the states. I've been seeing a whole lot more Fuji cameras around town, and the local camera store which used to exclusively carry Canon, Nikon, and Leica now carry Fuji and Sony, even putting on an event at a local bar allowing people to try out Fujis with shouting models, where I think Fuji has about as much name recognition as Pentax in the states. The guys who work at the shop always compliment on how nice my K-3 is when I come in too, I think they'd surely be excited to sell the cameras with support from Ricoh USA.

[Nicolas06]

Sad, but true!

In the US, foot traffic in shopping malls is down about 40%. The stores try to compete but there's too many people looking in the store but then buying online from someone who doesn't have to include the high cost of a store in the city.

Maybe Sad but that the way it elvolve... 150 years ago, it was the small shop complaining after the big center of city big shop. Recently it was after wallmart and equiv. Now it is the only shop... Tomorrow will be what? An hollow shop?

Anyway just to say that life still continue and we are not that bad

And by the way, even amazon open shops. Brick and motar does have value, but you need to do something about it. if you don't provide something interresting, an experience, people will as well shop online.