[RonHendriks1966]

I'm talking about camera's and market. Somehow I feel not everyone has the maturity to do so. Used the ignore list for this.

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Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 08-29-2016 at 01:14 PM.

[6BQ5]

Oooops! Did I post or cross post here on accident? I don't see my post in the message above. Please delete my original post here if possible.

[Biro]

I think that there isn't much market for a heavy magnesium-alloy aps-c model like K-3ii between K-1 and the lower tier now K-70. Just the K-70 is to much old tech with af-module from K-5ii and metering from K-7. Pentax doesn't fill mass market, so offering anything for hi volume sales would fail. K-70 is to expensive for what it is.

Well, all I can say is if there's no replacement for the K-3II at that premium level, that'll more-or-less be it for me with Pentax. I have absolutely no interest in moving to full frame. I got out of full frame quite a few years ago for a reason. If there's no premium APS-C Pentax, it'll be time to sell off my glass while it's still worth something. I realize that we're just talking here but I really hope Pentax supports the APS-C line going forward.

[Kunzite]

Don't worry. And definitely don't sell your glass.

[RonHendriks1966]

Well, all I can say is if there's no replacement for the K-3II at that premium level, that'll more-or-less be it for me with Pentax. I have absolutely no interest in moving to full frame. I got out of full frame quite a few years ago for a reason. If there's no premium APS-C Pentax, it'll be time to sell off my glass while it's still worth something. I realize that we're just talking here but I really hope Pentax supports the APS-C line going forward.

The premium futures should be in the lower weight replace met for K-70. Even the little topscreen could have a place on it.

[Kunzite]

And in canceling the K-1 and making a VR set instead

There is room for an upper (than K-70) level APS-C camera, and Pentax will make one. Camera makers are struggling to keep product margins - with the declining market the high volume, low margin model doesn't work (of course, Pentax has low volumes to begin with).
On a more technical note, there are many differences between a K-3 level camera and a K-70; this extends beyond what's obvious - the quiet shutter, for example, or the 3 motor system (for aperture, shutter and mirror). Such things are required to make a "premium" APS-C flagship.

[RonHendriks1966]

Looked back at the interview I did 2 1/2 years ago. All of it still apply's and the camera market has lost 1/3th of it sales in the mean time.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/248845-ricoh-imagin...t-meeting.html

What if in the coming years the market shrinks with another 1/3th?

[JPT]

Well, all I can say is if there's no replacement for the K-3II at that premium level, that'll more-or-less be it for me with Pentax. I have absolutely no interest in moving to full frame. I got out of full frame quite a few years ago for a reason. If there's no premium APS-C Pentax, it'll be time to sell off my glass while it's still worth something. I realize that we're just talking here but I really hope Pentax supports the APS-C line going forward.

Thinking about this logically, if you would have trouble selling of your APS-C glass, how much trouble would Ricoh have selling off their APS-C glass? They have stock of a full line up of APS-C lenses that they want to sell, many of which are quite expensive. That is reason enough to keep making advanced APS-C bodies.

[Erictator]

Everyone, including big business looks at trends. But, what if the trend is misread? What if people are NOT abandoning DSLR, but just keeping them longer and supplimenting them with cell phones as the current point and shoot option?

Technology advances in IQ have slowed, we just get more pixels and gimmicks mostly. (No absolutes used here) Picture a market wherr people keep their DSLR body for 3 or 4yrs, instead of jumping at the new releases. For a camera maker who wants to stay in the market and still sell on the new sales cycle, they would need to change their long term strategy, and cut back on side show products. The big 3 are so top heavy and dependant on the fast refresh sales cycle that Ricoh might actually be able to outlast them by staying lean and mean, and be the last one standing. Who knows?

FWIW, the computer industry is going through much the same issues right now.

[RonHendriks1966]

Thinking about this logically, if you would have trouble selling of your APS-C glass, how much trouble would Ricoh have selling off their APS-C glass? They have stock of a full line up of APS-C lenses that they want to sell, many of which are quite expensive. That is reason enough to keep making advanced APS-C bodies.

For the industrie the sale of lenses for dslr and milc is still very high. Partly because we had so many different new mounts in the past years. Also that the investment for lenses was high. This is the first year that sales of lenses is going down faster then before. Year 2012 was the top selling year. And I guess that it will go down fast over the coming 2 years. There is an enourmous amount of lenses around the world, being not used due to that people stopped using their dslr's. The second hand market for lenses is floated with lenses, great lenses and cheaper once. Second hand prices for lenses like Da*16-50mm and Da*50-15mm are going down, due to less users for hi-end aps-c with Pentax. This because there is a migration from users towards the full-frame K-1.

Sales numbers from cipa.
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/sw-201606_e.pdf

And the numbers with financial consequences.
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/s-201606_e.pdf

[Zygonyx]

Everyone, including big business looks at trends. But, what if the trend is misread? What if people are NOT abandoning DSLR, but just keeping them longer and supplimenting them with cell phones as the current point and shoot option?

Technology advances in IQ have slowed, we just get more pixels and gimmicks mostly. (No absolutes used here) Picture a market wherr people keep their DSLR body for 3 or 4yrs, instead of jumping at the new releases. For a camera maker who wants to stay in the market and still sell on the new sales cycle, they would need to change their long term strategy, and cut back on side show products. The big 3 are so top heavy and dependant on the fast refresh sales cycle that Ricoh might actually be able to outlast them by staying lean and mean, and be the last one standing. Who knows?

FWIW, the computer industry is going through much the same issues right now.

I fully agree with this "equipment durability" argument , at least in occident. There might be more newcommers in middle-class still blossoming asian countries, so that the DSLR marketshare can still develop for a while (in absolute numbers).

[reh321]

Everyone, including big business looks at trends. But, what if the trend is misread? What if people are NOT abandoning DSLR, but just keeping them longer and supplimenting them with cell phones as the current point and shoot option?

Technology advances in IQ have slowed, we just get more pixels and gimmicks mostly. (No absolutes used here) Picture a market wherr people keep their DSLR body for 3 or 4yrs, instead of jumping at the new releases. For a camera maker who wants to stay in the market and still sell on the new sales cycle, they would need to change their long term strategy, and cut back on side show products. The big 3 are so top heavy and dependant on the fast refresh sales cycle that Ricoh might actually be able to outlast them by staying lean and mean, and be the last one standing. Who knows?

FWIW, the computer industry is going through much the same issues right now.

Interestingly enough, there was a story on-line recently saying that we need to start thinking as we did in the days of film - and one of the suggestions was that we keep cameras longer. I strongly disagreed with other suggestions, but this one has always been my preferred mode of operation ... however since I bought my K-30 at a time of cash shortage, I never have planned to use it for an extended time period.

[Erictator]

Interestingly enough, there was a story on-line recently saying that we need to start thinking as we did in the days of film - and one of the suggestions was that we keep cameras longer. I strongly disagreed with other suggestions, but this one has always been my preferred mode of operation ... however since I bought my K-30 at a time of cash shortage, I never have planned to use it for an extended time period.

To make myself a case study - I went from the *ist D, DS, K10, K20, K7, K5, and was so frustrated with being on the upgrade wagon, minor spec improvements despite more and more pixels, some things were actually worse, (loved the D and DS, couldn't wait to ditch the K10, K20, K7) and when the K5 came along, I felt like it was finally the expected upgrade from the ancient DS! I kept the K-5 classic for a looooong time, still have it actually... It wasn't until this year, that I finally gave in to the upgrade urge, and treated myself to the K-1, and I feel it was the right choice, no regrets. I for one, don't plan on getting back on the upgrade train anytime soon, and put the 3 year accidental damage policy on my K-1 just so I can enjoy it with confidence for at least 3 years.


People burn out on upgrades after a while, I know I did. At some point, what you have is getting the job done, and the new tech isn't as appealing as it used to be. The body becomes a commodity item, and you just use it until you get the last drop out of it, and when it finally dies, you get the new model and hope it is as at least as good as the one that died. If it is better, count yourself lucky and enjoy. Heh.


Eric

[D1N0]

I will happily skip a few generations. K10D to K-5. Still on it. The K-1 will probably come in 2017 some time.

[afan137]

Currently in shops.

K-50 with 18-135mm lens for 649 euro.
K-S2 with 18-135mm lens for 799 euro.
K-70 with 18-135mm lens for 999 euro.
K-3ii with 18-135mm lens for 1299 euro.

People are not crazy. This was a problem for Nikon for years, having to many models in shops.


Look at this, formule 1 racer Max Verstappen on a demonstration in The Netherlands. Filmed with GoPro 360 video rigg. For this Theta does not offer a serious camera model.

On board with Max Verstappen for a 360 lap of Zandvoort - YouTube

That Verstappen video is really cool. So the GoPro is equipped with sensor to measure the speed, and etc ?
I guess Ricoh Theta need something not only 4K video, but also some nice features such us GoPro