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09-24-2016, 03:01 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The question I'm asking now, is how does the K-70 fit into that narrative?
One can see it being the entry-level Pentax DSLR, Reh.

IBIS, weather-sealed, articulating screen, decades of K-mount lenses to go on it ... pretty good for those who don't want to run with the herd.

Looks like the 'S' lines will disappear, if the interview is accurate.

09-24-2016, 03:44 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Looks like the 'S' lines will disappear, if the interview is accurate.
I imagine, though, it's because those lines didn't perform that well, in sales, rather than not fitting with the "Premium brand" approach. I think it's clear that the K-S1 was an experiment aimed at a perceived market group that didn't respond well. The K-S2 was an interesting if more conventional camera with some good features, so it's a pity if poor sales were the reason for its abandonment, but those features seem to have been picked up in the K70. I guess that was an initial move to reposition the brand.

The interesting thing for the future is what is meant by "premium". The K-1 isn't a high-priced body, even though it has a lot of advanced features, so it certainly isn't an "entry-level" 35FF camera, in general market terms. Some of the new D-FA lenses are priced up with the higher-specification lenses from the competition, although not in Leica or Zeiss territory (those could be described as occupying a class above "premium" - say, "prestige" or "luxury", although I'd describe them as being Deep into Diminishing Returns (DIDR) territory), but others are more generally affordable, so they may run counter to the notion that "premium" means "expensive".

I suspect that "premium" means "high-performing", implying that some products will be high-priced, but not all.

PS - In the Photokina interview, the Ricoh spokesperson did say (right at the end) that they listened to this Forum, so I wonder how they characterise the users here, and how that fits with their interpretation of "premium".
09-24-2016, 03:50 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
..

I suspect that "premium" means "high-performing", implying that some products will be high-priced, but not all.

PS - In the Photokina interview, the Ricoh spokesperson did say (right at the end) that they listened to this Forum, so I wonder how they characterise the users here, and how that fits with their interpretation of "premium".
Mr Kazunobu Saiki is usually very chatty and pleasant fellow. His English is very good, therefore his use of term "premium" is totally confusing. As others have said, Pentax DSLR offer so far was "economy" or "budget" stuff. Premium? Not really, far from that. By premium he may be referring to product(s) that are in the pipeline, and that "premium strategy" may be their final goal, but all of that is not visible to customers yet. In the meantime, they are feeding us with "economy" stuff, which is made from leftovers of the tech that goes into the premium line.
09-24-2016, 03:53 PM   #49
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I wouldn't think too much at a single word ("premium"); for all we know, it might mean not doing ultra-cheap DSLRs, the kind sold in supermarkets at a discount. And perhaps they want to distance themselves from the idea of a "bargain" brand (which obviously they're not).
They won't push themselves into a Leica-like niche. "Premium" for Pentax are products like the K-1, the two D FA telezooms, the 645 line...

09-24-2016, 05:44 PM   #50
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@zoolander There's a lot going on behind the scenes you can never know. Ricoh knows vastly more about the market and their resources than you do, and has a well thought out, long term plan to build their brands. They probably learned more from the Europe lens survey than they could from years of reading internet Forums.

A couple years ago I wrote that there's a wide gulf between Canon/Nikon and Leica . . . . Huh. It was just a guess, but 'Premium Brand' sounds about right.
09-24-2016, 05:57 PM   #51
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Well, here in the Philippines where Pentax cameras are being assembled/made, Pentax is already a premium brand. They're selling it higher than Nikon. Can you imagine the k-1 is being sold for about $2000. The k-3II is being sold for about $60 - $100 more than the d7200. Nikon lenses are cheaper than Pentax lenses. The company carrying Pentax is just simply killing the brand.
09-24-2016, 08:05 PM - 1 Like   #52
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The word "premium" is one of those words that is used a lot in Japanese marketing, and it normally means just quality. I think all the camera companies are trying to shift the value of their cameras toward the higher end, and Ricoh has unquestionably done that with the K-1, 645z, GR and Theta, while scrapping most of the compacts. In fact I wonder if any other company had done that as well as Ricoh - maybe Sony. My interpretation is that Sakai-san is probably referring to this by using the word premium, and not that they going to start charging a higher premium on their products. Recent pricing history certainly doesn't indicate this.
09-24-2016, 08:11 PM   #53
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+1 with JPT

Obviously, "premium" doesn't match the classical "top price" equivalent, in RI's representation of that concept.... if you look at things globally, you still find out that RI's photog systems don't "break the ceiling" pricewise :

- Pentax DSLR, Ricoh GR and Theta do bring a lot for attractive prices, which are not high prices and are rather low prices versus "concurrence"

- Pentax lenses are selling at relatively high, if not higher prices than concurrence, but also bring often a bit more (weather-seeling, retractability for «consumer models»)

All in all, despite RI's products are made in far more limited quantities compared to CaSoNikon or GoPro stuff, RI is still keeping their ratio "quality/price" "premium", whilst prices are kept "decent", or "affordable" for many.

Which imho explains why RI's strategy has so far been succesfull.


Last edited by Zygonyx; 09-24-2016 at 08:29 PM.
09-24-2016, 08:14 PM   #54
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$$ony has also indicated that their direction is toward the top end.This is mandatory imo,with the rapid advances the smart phn cameras have made.Samsung are working on the same size sensor as Q7 to put in (next?years)a future phn.
09-25-2016, 02:54 AM   #55
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Well, if the crucial DSLR tech is working as the competitor's, and if the service were as good as the competitor's, then what would they call their products then? Ultrapremium?
Pentax products are priced exactly as they are because Ricoh knows well that they are not as premium in quality and in expectations of the working of those devices as the best products of the brands in the same field. Sorry Ricoh.
They may be premium economy products, but that's it.
09-25-2016, 04:09 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
With all due respect, @Zoolander, I think there's a certain amount of fantasy and wishful thinking in your essay. Good onya, anyway, your heart's always been in the right place!

A company needs to be *selective* about engagement. It can't listen to vocal, uninformed minorities. They will consult and research products in a reliable manner.

We have a (former) Pentax ambassador here on the forums who's hinted that Tokyo does not necessarily heed or even inform overseas Ricoh distributors.

They did not ask PF members to contribute to the building or test the K-1 ... they hired some Japanese pro photographers and used their own local employees to take snapshots.

Small groups of PF members for years have dominated discussions and agitated for mirrorless, mechanical stabilization of video, retro, class-leading AF, etc, and been bitterly disappointed again and again. So much for people who reckon these forums are full of Pentax fanboys ... it's actually been the home of many, many more dreary naysayers ... hence the 'Doomed' stereotype.

Did you read Adam's interview with the Ricoh Imaging chairman at Photokina?

That pretty much confirmed Pentax's transition to a premium brand. They will not be serious about consumer end marketshare grab attempts like the K-500 or store presence or mass marketing or whatever. Canon and Nikon are bleeding and can't make money with that model, how could a small company?

And it will mean a tendency for new lenses and bodies to be big dollar items, not bargains. A lot of forum members are price-sensitive and will be disappointed by that.
Yes this may all be well and good, but what did chairman Kaga from the interview say:

"After the release of the K-1, we are getting a lot of nice hints. We want to communicate with our fans more closely, through the forum as well as direct events.
We want to listen to the customer's voice, because our success only comes from the users. We want to satisfy users, and then they will respect our products. We can then deliver new products according to their advice."


Read more at: Photokina 2016 Pentax Interview - Photokina 2016 | PentaxForums.com

From the horses mouth ......how ironic just yesterday I was saying that Pentax does look at the forums and look at what their customers are yacking about.

---------- Post added 09-25-16 at 09:26 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Seller perspective:
They have much better and reliable methods of doing market research than caring about random forum whishlists (mostly from the usual worthless suspects). It makes good business sense to ignore all wishlists here alltogether in favor of statistical relevant data from people who they believe will actually put their money where their mouth is - the latter is where 95% wishlist-authors fail miserably
What did chairman Saito say:

After the release of the K-1, we are getting a lot of nice hints. We want to communicate with our fans more closely, through the forum as well as direct events.
We want to listen to the customer's voice, because our success only comes from the users. We want to satisfy users, and then they will respect our products. We can then deliver new products according to their advice.


Read more at: Photokina 2016 Pentax Interview - Photokina 2016 | PentaxForums.com

Well there you have it. Christmas wish lists from "the usual worthless suspects" are in ! But you should have already known this because during every photo show Pentax forums interviews the big wigs from Pentax and they always say that they're listening to users on the forum.

No need to thank me, just thank the "usual worthless suspects" as you call them.
09-25-2016, 04:51 AM   #57
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More likely a form of Japanese business executive politeness when being interviewed by a Forum owner.
09-25-2016, 05:06 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
More likely a form of Japanese business executive politeness when being interviewed by a Forum owner.
So now the executive at Pentax is a liar and blowing smoke up everyone's behind - You know, they'll commit Harakiri if they get caught lying to their customers. All I'm saying is its a pretty big risk !
09-25-2016, 05:56 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by zoolander Quote
So now the executive at Pentax is a liar and blowing smoke up everyone's behind - You know, they'll commit Harakiri if they get caught lying to their customers. All I'm saying is its a pretty big risk !
Japanese never lie. That would be shameful.

They never say no. That would be impolite.

They don't say, "Yes." That would be a matter of honor to fulfill.

They say 'Q will continue. Q-S1 is a current camera.' True statement, but not an answer to the question.

Westerners rarely hear what Japanese say.
09-25-2016, 11:13 AM - 1 Like   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Japanese never lie. That would be shameful.

They never say no. That would be impolite.

They don't say, "Yes." That would be a matter of honor to fulfill.

They say 'Q will continue. Q-S1 is a current camera.' True statement, but not an answer to the question.

Westerners rarely hear what Japanese say.
You are 100% correct.
My interpretation was
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
In other words, they will continue to produce them as long as we continue to buy them
He never promised to add onto the line; just to continue to do what they are doing.
He did not lie, but he didn't promise anything new either.
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