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09-20-2016, 12:16 PM   #166
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Mirrorless will be replaced by a technology Hasselblad appears to have embraced. The Hasselblad True Zoom "Moto Mod" that is a camera back that snaps onto a Motorola smartphone and provides an image sensor and optics superior to the internal phones camera.

Hasselblad True Zoom | Moto Mods? Motorola

Personally point and shoot and most consumer mirrorless will be supplanted by smartphones that have augmented camera mods available from third-party vendors. Professional cameras will continue and will likely be pushed into the full frame and medium formats in order to readily differentiate from the pro-consumer smartphone with camera back from users vendor of choice. So I forcast the following future..

1. Smartphones with the camera backs as demonstrated from Hasselblad/Motorola.

2. Declining mirrorless market as camera makers realize the hockey stick they'd forecasted is an inverse.

3. Full Frame and Medium format customers will continue to enjoy the flawless optics of actual glass versus the EVF that still won't match regardless of the resolution and the delay incurred for the EVF rendering.

09-20-2016, 12:38 PM   #167
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I understand view cameras. Used to expose paper negatives with Toyo 45A. It was fun until the bellows failed.

Anyway, every time I power on my K-1 I get pissed off when it flips the mirror when starting live view. Then I adjust some parameters via quick menu, bang bang clickety clack. Totally useless. I only compose with live view thanks to the wonderful tilt screen system K-1 has. It is lot better than the single direction version Sony has in A7x.

MILC body should have 10" screen by default.
09-20-2016, 12:43 PM   #168
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Then Get an A99 II it has a multidirection screen and the mirror won't flip.
09-20-2016, 12:51 PM - 1 Like   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
I understand view cameras. Used to expose paper negatives with Toyo 45A. It was fun until the bellows failed.

Anyway, every time I power on my K-1 I get pissed off when it flips the mirror when starting live view. Then I adjust some parameters via quick menu, bang bang clickety clack. Totally useless. I only compose with live view thanks to the wonderful tilt screen system K-1 has. It is lot better than the single direction version Sony has in A7x.

MILC body should have 10" screen by default.
I use ground glass, wlf, the normal slr/dslr and mirrorless in my photography and have used the X100 and X100S hybrid viewfinders plus the old fashion pinhole technique of aiming the camera sort of towards something. I neither want anyone else deciding what method I use nor limiting me to just one. I would hate a 10' screen for example that is bigger than my tablet. I do not what to use the same method for shooting sports as I do for other types of shooting. There are reasons for different camera types and viewing types. I hate the direction the world sometimes seems to be heading, making us consumers of identical products with only a few different labels on them.

Sounds like you only like live view something I seldom use on my K5IIs and I seldom use the prism on my Hasselblad. I like to be able to decide for myself which works best and I cannot see the dslr disappearing any time soon for some aspects of photograph. But that might simply be my 65 year old brain not embracing the latest and greatest of everything.

09-20-2016, 01:25 PM   #170
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K-1 is weird concept in a way. Pixel-Shift is useless without pinpoint focusing which can be achieved only by manually focusing zoomed in. All high-MP bodies require extremely careful focusing. Optical viewfinder is only guesswork at best. Why are Fuji and Hasselblad adopting mirrorless technique just now? Magnified focusing aids, for one.
09-20-2016, 01:28 PM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
I neither want anyone else deciding what method I use nor limiting me to just one.
Complete agreement.

Let's hope that the variety of options continues. Perhaps 3D printers will get good enough to print optical quality lenses and one can print the camera of choice in any configuration that photographer desires for their project.

Until then, it's either purchasing pre-owned hardware or new purchases of the offerings at the time.
09-20-2016, 01:50 PM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
K-1 is weird concept in a way. Pixel-Shift is useless without pinpoint focusing which can be achieved only by manually focusing zoomed in. All high-MP bodies require extremely careful focusing. Optical viewfinder is only guesswork at best. Why are Fuji and Hasselblad adopting mirrorless technique just now? Magnified focusing aids, for one.
If you haven't noticed the K-1 has "magnified focusing aids" as well. I use it all the time on the K-3....
09-20-2016, 01:53 PM   #173
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Would you expect the blinkers-man to see the whole picture ?

09-20-2016, 02:08 PM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
If you haven't noticed the K-1 has "magnified focusing aids" as well. I use it all the time on the K-3....
Didn't I just wrote so? Zoomed in focusing in live view. Focus peaking is as bad as in Sony system - will not help achieving all resolution good lens has to offer.
09-20-2016, 02:11 PM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
Didn't I just wrote so? Zoomed in focusing in live view. Focus peaking is as bad as in Sony system - will not help achieving all resolution good lens has to offer.
I'm guessing that depends on what kind of DOF you're working with. I've always worked with a "comfortable" DOF, maybe at f/5.6, and then even the "focus achieved" light gives me good results.
09-20-2016, 02:19 PM   #176
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Dof does not matter. To get any use from PS you have to nail your focus on the subject you wish to pop in your photo. This is why PS gets negative feedback so often. It requires extreme care to succeed.

It is the hidden jewel of K-1 and a good example of need for modern focusing system. New Phase MF backs have retina grade display to help getting most out of available detail. The higher the resolution, the less an optical VF will help. You either rely on AF or magnified MF.
09-20-2016, 02:46 PM   #177
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Well, these ASP-c/FF retros haven't appeared@ Photokina, I suppose this thread can STOP now.....why speculate about things that are highly unlikely to happen!
09-20-2016, 02:57 PM - 1 Like   #178
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Don't know guys... Maybe this is not the best discussion to post my thoughts... But... DSLR vs Mirrorless... Doesn't interest me so much...
I'm here just to learn more about Pentax system... And from the outside, it doesn't shine so much... Let me explain before throwing rocks at me!

I mean... Here a lot of people hope that a new batch of new full frame lenses will be released (none of this so far at Photokina, let's wait till the end) but I find having a such long list of APS-C lenses for K-mount a great plus... Don't want to pay more, don't want to spend more, don't want to carry more... Love APS-C. That wish is nonetheless reasonable, as K-1 compatible lenses with good resolution and updated characteristics are not so much! But even these APS-C lenses need a good upgrade, with update focus system and characteristcs... so both fanbases of Pentax system are here asking for new products!

So far, none of this happened at Photokina... No new body, no new full frame lenses, no new APS-C lenses... We had that K-70 and that 55-300 PLM some weeks ago... Great combo but again Pentax seems not to care to some people asked (video related stuff) and again no updated better optics...

Then we have a look at what Fujifilm is building with its mirrorless system (don't want a DSLR vs mirrorless battle here, just comparing systems)... and we have something similar to Pentax... Great selection of APS-C lenses, great body... But at the Photokina they are keeping innovating with new products and a good selection of lenses to start battling in the medium format arena... And we have also the new X-T2 by which Fujifilm answered whinings from publics improving so much autofocus and video characteristics... Moreover, we will have a new camera that instant print square picture like those Polaroids... Not interested, but...

Comparing these two players... One that is "a bit" overpriced (ok, that 17-50 f/2.8 by Pentax is not so different) but keep upgrading systems and Pentax, which so far (compared) lags behind...
Why, I ask, should I start my journey with Pentax? I have no lenses, no body... And I have some cash... But how can I trust a brand with a niche market like fujifilm who seems to be too much slow in answering to competition? To me Pentax is not showing sign of keeping pace with the innovation of others brand...

P.S.: Remember, I'm not here to waste my time bashing Pentax... I'm here because I'm a potential buyer... But as a potential buyer, I try to find gaps in systems... Better find those now, than before buying something...
09-20-2016, 05:03 PM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sasha Quote
So far, none of this happened at Photokina... No new body, no new full frame lenses, no new APS-C lenses... We had that K-70 and that 55-300 PLM some weeks ago...
If only Pentax had not released them just "some weeks" back, better to hold onto and only release at Photokina..... Don't even have a full "in-depth review" of the K-70 yet and the in-depth of the K-1 was only recently finished. Look at the speed on the firmware release that brought new features. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 1.20 K-70 firmware not too long after the completed in-depth review that brings some user requested fixes. I'm seriously impressed with this firmware release announcement so quickly after the in-depth review and the customer requests.

I suspect we'll be seeing a series of new lenses, just not in time to announce at this event. Likely, to encourage upgrades from older bodies, you'll see a series of existing lens families re-released in KAF4 format. Right now, the number of customers able to support KAF4 is too low to really attract Sigma and others yet. Even if super simple to adapt Canon and Nikon lens designs with a similar electronic aperture design, there is even less than the current Pentax 5% market share able to support KAF4.

So a buncha new lens releases and then next year? K-70 just released, I don't expect another enthusiast body for another year or two. Possibly something for the K3 II, but it's still relevant with the firmware upgrade to support KAF4 and a feature set that is larger than the K-70. K-1 is so new as a FF body, I would expect it to remain another year.
09-20-2016, 10:06 PM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
the "fundamental, irreconcilable limitations" don't necessarily apply to things valued by consumer level users.
The true professional market (people who need a camera to make a living) isn't big enough to support any of the ILC cameras on the market today. If it wasn't for non-professional camera aficionados with sufficient disposable income to buy tools with advanced capabilities they will never have the ability or opportunity to make full use of, today's professionals would be getting their 12MP DSLRs that they purchased less than 10 years ago refurbished, so they could keep using all the expensive lenses and accessories they purchased to make their professional grade digital pictures stand out from the professionals still using film. What photography enthusiasts perceive the mass market to be doesn't exist. The mass market doesn't want a device that can only take pictures, as soon as something came along that was indispensable for doing other non-vital things, like sending little notes back and forth without paper, that could also take pictures that you could recognize faces in, the mass market moved on.

The interchangeable lens camera is like the radial arm saw. What is available for purchase is driven by what the infrequent user, who is looking to buy things that make them look like a professional, thinks is important, not what is actually important to people who earn their living using these "things." There is no compelling reason for anyone to have a MILC, no situation where desirable photographs can only be taken with an MILC. Yet there is a market for MILC's.
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