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10-08-2016, 04:13 AM   #541
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If Pentax throws the K mount overboard for a new APS-C or FF mirrorless camera, in order to reduce the register distance, I definitely wont buy into that new system. I'll rather keep having a K mount DSLR or if it gets weakened, I'll choose whatever that have a good ecosystem, and I doubt that will be Pentax.

A clear message from me to Pentax: Don't throw the K mount over board for mirrorless. I want a K-02 with EVF and new black/silver retro design.

10-08-2016, 04:37 AM   #542
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Is there any point in continuing this? Any argument I'm making would only strengthen your belief in the opposite (which is, unfortunately, a common human behavior).

OTOH your arguments are quite shabby, so they won't convince me.
"AF" is too generic; they did abandon the technical solution as implemented in the ME-F and the AF 35-70mm after a single try - because it didn't work. I'm not using broken analogies, I'm using as example exactly the thing they did, and you're asking them to do again.
Let's be realistic, often Pentax products are rejected based on excuses - just for the sake of doing it. The K-01's design is atypical, not outrageously bad as it was described; the K-S1 LEDs don't make it a disco globe, it's still a capable little camera; and so on.
Your 2-3 years deadline is made up; I don't expect MILCs to even reach DSLR levels by then, less alone becoming the more lucrative market for Pentax. Even more, your solution won't put Pentax in a position to properly compete on the MILC market, as - your own claim - it would be made for existing K-mount DSLR users. That's inconsistent.
Once again: there is another way of entering the MILC market, than destroying the existing line; Canon proved that.

I'm not picking up part of the history, it's you conveniently forgetting the claims you were making; conveniently, because this way you won't ever support your own claims. You said: "Pentax took 10 year to be there... Imagine if they have to restart from scratch. 10 more years."; prove that they worked 10 years toward that goal, or retract your statement.

So... is there any point in continuing this?

---------- Post added 08-10-16 at 02:38 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
If Pentax throws the K mount overboard for a new APS-C or FF mirrorless camera, in order to reduce the register distance, I definitely wont buy into that new system. I'll rather keep having a K mount DSLR or if it gets weakened, I'll choose whatever that have a good ecosystem, and I doubt that will be Pentax.
That won't happen; we know as a fact that Ricoh Imaging is expanding the K-mount system. They wouldn't do that just to throw it away.
Don't panic.
10-08-2016, 04:46 AM   #543
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Don't panic.
Sorry, but I do worry when asahi man says a mirrorless APS-C/FF camera wont use K mount, and I know how the FT system ended after they made the micro FT.

I understand Ricoh/Pentax reads this forum, so I just want to give them a clear message of my opinion, for what its worth.
10-08-2016, 04:53 AM - 1 Like   #544
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
(...).
Your 2-3 years deadline is made up; I don't expect MILCs to even reach DSLR levels by then, less alone becoming the more lucrative market for Pentax. (...)
Is this deadline made up by Nicolas06? Not entirely, see for instance:

Photokina 2016: Fujifilm Interview: Digital Photography Review

QuoteQuote:
How do you see the mirrorless and DSLR markets evolving within the next 2-3 years?

Probably, in 2 years time, the size of the mirrorless market will exceed the market for DSLRs, globally. Already in some Asian countries the mirrorless market is bigger than DSLR.
(yes, I know, this is a pro domo plea, just not Nicolas06's )

10-08-2016, 04:57 AM   #545
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No reference was given.
And that's a Fujifilm interview, their marketing claims are highly suspect - even so, they only dare to say "probably" (which IMHO means they don't believe it at all). I'm rather watching the CIPA data, which is not influenced by marketing.

---------- Post added 08-10-16 at 02:59 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
Sorry, but I do worry when asahi man says a mirrorless APS-C/FF camera wont use K mount, and I know how the FT system ended after they made the micro FT.

I understand Ricoh/Pentax reads this forum, so I just want to give them a clear message of my opinion, for what its worth.
With enough pessimism, one might say that abandoning K-mount is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike what Ricoh Imaging might do.
10-08-2016, 05:04 AM   #546
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The great K is the Mount for all Pentax dslr cameras,don't worry.
It will be developed more and more,look to the current version 4.
But there is absolutely no reason to hold the K for mirrorless,cause you can not use K lenses without adapter.
And be not afraid,the next 2 dslr bodies are K bodies
With a lot of luck,we see the first next Yokohama show.
10-08-2016, 05:05 AM   #547
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I would call that optimism. K mount are probably the dearest jewel they have. Leaving it would be a disaster. Strengthening K mount with more VF options is optimistic. They already tried the no VF option with K-01. Its time to try the EVF option as well. The demand is obviously there, according to forum posts all over the net.

Last edited by Simen1; 10-08-2016 at 05:28 AM.
10-08-2016, 05:15 AM   #548
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
The great K is the Mount for all Pentax dslr cameras,don't worry.
Olympus said the same thing about FT when they introduced micro FT.

QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
But there is absolutely no reason to hold the K for mirrorless,cause you can not use K lenses without adapter.
I have to disagree. K-01 proves it is possible. The register distance are a key ingredient in the K mount specification. If Pentax changes that, it wont be K mount anymore, even if they keep all the rest of the mount specification. When I say I want a K mount mirrorless, it should be unnecessary to specifically say that implies to keep the register distance. Giving it the hypothetical name K-02 should also be a clear indication of what I mean.

I understand you cant comment on future products, not more then wage hints at least, but can you comment on what Pentax thinks of the K-01 in retrospect? What did Pentax learn from its reception in different markets?


Last edited by Simen1; 10-08-2016 at 05:20 AM.
10-08-2016, 05:16 AM   #549
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Any degree of doubting Ricoh Imaging's interest in further developing the K-mount is pessimism.

---------- Post added 08-10-16 at 03:22 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
Olympus said the same thing about FT when they introduced micro FT.
I'm not just listening for claims, but also looking at their actions: the new D FA lens line, lens roadmap, lens survey are good indicators of what they're planning to do. A yet unfounded fear they might abandon K-mount is not.
10-08-2016, 05:40 AM - 1 Like   #550
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QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
If Pentax throws the K mount overboard for a new APS-C or FF mirrorless camera,
Yes if. It is a purely hypothetical if, which won't happen. Pentax is a traditonal camera brand and only one of the three remaining DSLR manufacturers. They intend to be the one that puts out the light at the end of the party which will last a very long time still.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kazunobu Saiki against dpreview:
"We believe we can revive Pentax as the leading company for DSLRs"
This is much stronger than what Sony says about A-mount

QuoteOriginally posted by sony:
we’re keeping the A-mount system as our asset. Running A-mount alongside the E-mount is very important. A-mount is a keeper.
10-08-2016, 05:41 AM - 1 Like   #551
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QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
I would call that optimism. K mount are probably the dearest jewel they have. Leaving it would be a disaster. Strengthening K mount with more VF options is optimistic. They already tried the no VF option with K-01. Its time to try the EVF option as well. The demand is obviously there, according to forum posts all over the net.
It's not about leaving K-mount. it's about entering a different market where no K-mount camera can enter.
A k-mount camera with EVF will just cover a small niche for existing K-mount users, and will mostly just eat some of the K-mount DSLR sales instead of expanding sales into a new market.

Pentax has expanded their market with many different mount in the past.. 6x7, 645, 110 and Q mounts has all been designed for different market than m42 or K-mount system can cover.
They seems to want the same with a new mirrorless mount, but K-mount will still be their main focus as long as that is their biggest market.

A new mirrorless mount is a bigger threat against the Q-mount than the K-mount.
10-08-2016, 12:39 PM   #552
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
...A k-mount camera with EVF will just cover a small niche for existing K-mount users, and will mostly just eat some of the K-mount DSLR sales instead of expanding sales into a new market.
.....
I believe the purpose would be to "protect" their K-mount market, before some of us "defect" to MILC from some other manufacturer. Some of us will leave K-mount DSLR - the question is whether we go to K-mount MILC or MILC from someone else.
10-08-2016, 12:42 PM   #553
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Those aren't the only options.
10-08-2016, 01:09 PM   #554
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Some of us will leave K mount DSLR. The options are:

- K mount MILC: lots of lenses, great system with lots of lenses, including the ones we have and many cheaper older options. Maybe just for the fun or "lomo" of it in some cases, or for better reasons in other cases. Or just buy some of the many new high end lenses, which probably costed a lot to develop.

- Pentax new mount MILC with very few lenses and no used options. Maybe some adapters will immerge after a while, but they will most likely be manual focus and aperture.

- Other brand MILC with lots of existing lenses, new and used.

Seriously, many wont even consider option two to be an option, and if we are to rely on adapters, then we might as well choose any other brand as well. So in my opinion # 1 and 3 are the only true options.
10-08-2016, 01:19 PM   #555
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I believe the purpose would be to "protect" their K-mount market, before some of us "defect" to MILC from some other manufacturer. Some of us will leave K-mount DSLR - the question is whether we go to K-mount MILC or MILC from someone else.
A k-mount MILC may just as well force many users to other brand for mirrorless. Many users want other advantages than just "mirrorless" on a MILC.
Some of us have already left Pentax when it comes to mirrorless, and a K-mount MILC will not bring us back. But a optimized mirrorless system will most likely do as it may offer advantages no other manufacurer offer. FI full support on K-mount with an adapter.

If properly executed a short register mount MiLC can both protect K-mount, and satisfy those that want a second more compact system.
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