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09-18-2016, 02:00 PM   #61
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In my expression, R&D is different from sole product development : no need of new license .

09-18-2016, 02:07 PM   #62

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What license?
R&D - as you certainly are aware - stands for Research and Development. So, if they have to make (develop) a new body and adapt (software development) some pre-existing firmware for it (I'm very generous, assuming that would be all), guess who would do that...

P.S. Joking aside, my point is: whatever product is that we're wishing for, it costs a non-trivial amount money and other resources to make it - and to sell it.

Last edited by Kunzite; 09-18-2016 at 02:18 PM.
09-18-2016, 03:02 PM - 1 Like   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The point of a shorter flange is to avoid having a large wasted space inside your camera - which only serves to require your wide angle lenses to have a retrofocus design.
We've already addressed the fact that the idea of a flat, thin, short-register camera is a false economy.

The 'wasted' space serves an ergonomic purpose in better body shape and deeper battery well, allows use of all the existing small Limited lenses with KAF4 (including DA15) and doesn't require a massive investment in another new mount just so 500 people in the entire world can mount a 12mm APSc lens to it.

Whatever though. I don't have a dog in this hunt. I have no need for an MILC - even Q is just a $200 toy.

Last edited by monochrome; 09-18-2016 at 03:12 PM.
09-18-2016, 03:16 PM   #64

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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
even Q is just a $200 toy.
Oh, Paul, you blew it with that edit!

09-18-2016, 03:20 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
I know it is a longshot, but the fastest way to market would be to introduce a "mirrorless" crop-sensor body with a built-in tilt/shift mechanism with KAF4 electrical contacts. Obviously given the tilt/shift, there would be no motor drive for AF. This would allow them to keep the K-mount pretty much "as is" and with the right lens gives you tilt/shift for free. This would be a great addition to their current system, providing a unique value proposition without having to re-engineer the whole shooting works. If the ergonomics for said tilt/shift mechanism were superb (perhaps even servo driven?), you might even get some of the LensBaby crowd to move over.

This is very nice idea. I would seriously consider such device.
09-18-2016, 03:29 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Oh, Paul, you blew it with that edit!
Well, I did buy several of them during the End-of-Life liquidation. The truth is having a K-1 has seriously changed my attitude. Now all I ever grab is the big camera and everything else gathers dust. It's really strange, and a mite troubling.
09-18-2016, 03:47 PM   #67

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No, we haven't and it's not about that, anyway. I'm talking registration distance here - and its implications on optics. You mentioned the DA 15mm, but that's an f/4 lens - what if you could do an f/2.8 with better corner to corner sharpness instead? Fujifilm has an 18mm f/2 pancake, so it might be possible with a smaller registration distance.

Having an unused space between the lens and the shutter serves no practical purpose. Yes, you can design a camera so it would have a suitable shape; perhaps something resembling a thinner (but still comfortable) K-5, or some retro-styled camera with a deep grip.
You could also have some really compact cameras, with matching pancakes and retractable zooms - in addition to larger offerings. You could alter the design according to the market's response. Unless you'd fall into the "flat, thin" trap, you have more freedom in designing your cameras (as much as I like the K-1, it's a bit too thick for my hands).
If you don't do that, you might as well make a DSLR.

You should know me by now, silly ridiculing tactics ("just so 500 people in the entire world") don't work with me; they only tell me you don't have real arguments Your proposal would put Ricoh Imaging at an disadvantage, while the argument - using "all the existing small Limited lenses with KAF4" - doesn't stand because those lenses don't exist.
That it requires a massive investment - true, but this is what it takes to seriously compete on the MILC market. There's no shortcut, no "magical" workaround; if it cannot be done in 2017, simultaneously with the D FA line, it cannot be done (which is actually my point). But on the long term, I'm convinced this is the only reasonable option.

By the way, I'm staying with DSLRs; there, that space is properly useful (and retrofocus wide angle design is necessary, not just a waste).
09-18-2016, 03:51 PM   #68
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If Ricoh had production issues (supply) with the 645Z then had the same issue with the K-1.. even though they knew of the potential issues as a result of the 645Z.. then it seems to me they are keeping the production lines short for whatever reason and thus I'm not so sure they'd add another new camera/lens type right now.

It more makes me wonder what is going on inside of Ricoh Imaging.. my guess (always scary to guess) is they must have a fixed amount of money to spend and are limited by that.. I bet the internal conversations are interesting there. :c )

09-18-2016, 03:52 PM   #69

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Component supply issues?
09-18-2016, 03:58 PM   #70
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Twice in a row for major products? Possible but I think unlikely. How long does it take to fabricate a batch of sensors and send them to Ricoh for camera manufacture? That would be the only obvious potential component holdup.

And even if it is, what is the reason for the 645Z? There was no earthquake then.. I just think the Pentax line is running thin.. slow to ramp up..
09-18-2016, 04:00 PM   #71

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No, just for the K-1. They underestimated the demand once again, indeed; but, besides that, the earthquakes had a significant impact.
09-18-2016, 04:45 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
It would also need a motor to function for af in screw-drive lenses. That motor won't be inside the mirrorless body. So you would have to make a little monster adapter that is way to expensive.
The adapter would be bigger than it would be without the motor, but not monstrous, otherwise we would have monstrous SDM or DC lenses, too.
09-18-2016, 05:24 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The truth is having a K-1 has seriously changed my attitude. Now all I ever grab is the big camera and everything else gathers dust. It's really strange, and a mite troubling.
The K-1 has had that effect on me as well. Hopefully it lasts..... can't see why not. The lens has been the hero to me for some time.... however with the K-1 it seems to be an equal partnership.
09-18-2016, 06:35 PM   #74
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This 'rumour' is self-repeating itself for quite some time. So no one knows whether this is persistent wishful thinking.
But with certainty I can state that if Pentax comes out with a new mount, Pentax loses the game and will become even more insignificant.

1. Improve DSLR with mirrorless ideas
It makes more sense that Pentax advances DSLR design further, by implementing mirrorless ideas into it, rather than killing a historic mount to get mere inch "advantage" which is immediately lost in increased new lens sizes by two inches. It is ridiculous, which shows how irrational today photography industry is.

2. Join existing mirrorless deal
On the other hand, if they really need to join the mirrorless systems, I would rather see Pentax joining hands with a current solid mirrorless solution, say that from Leica. L-mount from Leica is the mount that supports both crop and the FF, and is best purpose-made mirrorless mount designed in the last 10 years. Very last thing market needs is yet another mount by a player that cannot hold up to once most popular SLR mount.

3. Fixed lens mirrorless
Last, but not the least, those "new vintage cameras" may as well be fixed lens mirrorless cameras that look like whatever old Pentax SLR, and come with a Pentax ~28 or ~40mm attached lens. To me this is the most logical answer to this proposition and one that may open new market to Pentax brand name.

Such cameras may be purchased by anyone, and be a sort of ticket that leads to sales of the Pentax DSLRs, and be far more effective in that than the Ricoh GR. Ricoh GR will not boost any Pentax DSLR sales. But an FF fixed lens mirrorless camera, branded Pentax, will.

Pentax brand must expand into fixed lens mirrorless, and I think Ricoh finally realised that.

Last edited by Uluru; 09-18-2016 at 06:51 PM.
09-19-2016, 12:30 AM   #75

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You might be certain, but you are wrong:

1. Improve DSLR with mirrorless ideas - Entering the large sensor MILC market can and should be done without giving up on DSLRs. "Killing a historic mount"? Nonsense, did Canon kill the EF mount?
Besides, there aren't many "mirrorless ideas", can't put an EVF (but perhaps add more information into the optical viewfinder e.g. via LCD overlay), and the live view mode is improving as new sensors are available. Instead, I would say they should advance DSLR specific stuff - the optical viewfinder and the autofocus system. Enough resources reserved, and they can do it even with a MILC in their lineup.

2. Join existing mirrorless deal - First, such a deal would have to be an option - does Leica want others to make cheaper L-mount cameras and lenses? Second, it would have to be desirable for Pentax - would they like playing second fiddle to Leica?
I don't think that's such a great idea.

3. Fixed lens mirrorless - Those "new vintage cameras" most likely don't exist, thus they don't have to be anything.
Simultaneously launching two fixed lens cameras under the Pentax brand, APS-C (killing the GR?) and FF, are you paying attention to what Ricoh Imaging is doing? They don't take such stupidly huge risks. If they would do it, one camera at first, to see how it sells.
And individual cameras can't replace a system.

Let's give Ricoh Imaging more credit than that

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