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09-19-2016, 03:20 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
The problem with most of these digital cameras is that they are not all "retro analogue", but have dual interface, so you sometimes have to switch to modern control whether you like it or not.
The only manufacturer that has come close to design an "all analogue" camera is Leica with their M-series (especially those without LCD).

A lot of Nikon Df users seems to have stopped using the "retro analogue" interface and gone over to all "modern digital" interface instead.

Maybe Ricoh can solve this and create a simplified interface and create something that truly feels like and old all mechanical SLR, but I doubt they will do as this might be too niche.
There is a risk that the interface become overly complicated like most other retro digital cameras.
well, im a frequenter of fuji forums, and know a bunch of Df owners, and none i know of have gone 'auto'. but even if they did, thats not a comment on analogue, but rather a comment on users. in the end, after IQ, its about choice and flexibility.

09-19-2016, 03:25 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I didn't say it will come tomorrow! They work with a lot of stuff behind the scenes
More clues please! ha ha!
09-19-2016, 03:59 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Ricoh has been there, done that:

GXR / Digital Cameras | RICOH IMAGING

Now all they have left is the T-shirt:
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That is why I wrote that mirrorless mount is a waste of time. They had one, and it was nonsense.
Mirrorless mounts generally are nonsense. It's the dead end. Even if in worst case scenario they decide to burn all their money at once and go off stage, it would better not to waste on own mirrorless mount, but join some current mirrorless mount. And that was the purport of my post.

On the other hand, I am all for FF fixed lens mirrorless camera that weighs some ~650g total package. Sony RX1 weighs some 500 grams, and Leica Q weighs 640grams. It's doable.
09-19-2016, 05:31 PM   #109
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For them to survive, Pentax/Ricoh must jump in big with the mirrorless thing. Mirrorless is the future, I have absolutely no doubt. It will require a new line of lenses and mount. Optically they'll have to beat Sony, which is easy. They can try to compete with Fuji, much tougher because of Fuji's amazing glass. They may be able to time this after the "retro" fad mellows out and truly design something out of pure ergonomics with just a subtle nod to the retro/nostalgic stylings. Now that Sony, Fuji, Canon, Lumix, and Olympus have refined and honed in on what works and what people want, Ricoh/Pentax can take advantage of this knowledge and market and really dive in with a shot at success. The upside for them is that they'd be embarking on a new line that can grow for many years to come. Just look at how Fuji jumped in with only 3 primes. Now their lens lineup is huge and still growing.

Full Frame is not where it's gonna be at. People want smaller, and since sensors are becoming SO good, APS-C is plenty big for the future of pro, mirrorless, interchangeable lens cameras.

B

09-19-2016, 05:54 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
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That is why I wrote that mirrorless mount is a waste of time. They had one, and it was nonsense.
Mirrorless mounts generally are nonsense. It's the dead end. Even if in worst case scenario they decide to burn all their money at once and go off stage, it would better not to waste on own mirrorless mount, but join some current mirrorless mount. And that was the purport of my post.

On the other hand, I am all for FF fixed lens mirrorless camera that weighs some ~650g total package. Sony RX1 weighs some 500 grams, and Leica Q weighs 640grams. It's doable.
Canon EOS-M5 will be a good test of your theory.
For once, Canon seems to be doing it right, and based on my email, this effort is getting marketing support.
09-19-2016, 06:04 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Canon EOS-M5
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
marketing
Yes, its marketed as 5 axis stabilisation.....but read the fine print, then its only in video mode( which is behind the times)


Their AF is very good, but this is essentially a stills camera.....same as the 5Dmk4(video crop 1.7x with a behind the times codec)
09-19-2016, 06:18 PM - 2 Likes   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by bradsarno Quote
For them to survive, Pentax/Ricoh must jump in big with the mirrorless thing. Mirrorless is the future, I have absolutely no doubt. It will require a new line of lenses and mount. Optically they'll have to beat Sony, which is easy. They can try to compete with Fuji, much tougher because of Fuji's amazing glass. They may be able to time this after the "retro" fad mellows out and truly design something out of pure ergonomics with just a subtle nod to the retro/nostalgic stylings. Now that Sony, Fuji, Canon, Lumix, and Olympus have refined and honed in on what works and what people want, Ricoh/Pentax can take advantage of this knowledge and market and really dive in with a shot at success. The upside for them is that they'd be embarking on a new line that can grow for many years to come. Just look at how Fuji jumped in with only 3 primes. Now their lens lineup is huge and still growing.

Full Frame is not where it's gonna be at. People want smaller, and since sensors are becoming SO good, APS-C is plenty big for the future of pro, mirrorless, interchangeable lens cameras.

B
IMO just about everything in this post is overstated.
09-19-2016, 06:41 PM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
IMO just about everything in this post is overstated.
That is just because you bought a K1 😁

Like everyone else I can solidly state that the future will require exactly what I want which is ...........😊

I would guess that a mirrorless APS-C would be more successful than a retro FF for Pentax. Is it possible to have other than k mount with a retracting K mount adapter?

09-19-2016, 06:58 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
That is just because you bought a K1 😁

Like everyone else I can solidly state that the future will require exactly what I want which is ...........😊

I would guess that a mirrorless APS-C would be more successful than a retro FF for Pentax. Is it possible to have other than k mount with a retracting K mount adapter?
I'd bet a Pentax APSc MILC will cost more than K-1, so many will be disappointed. There's no marketing justification for making a retro or add-style Pentax MILC. It wouldn't sell enough units to justify the cost.

Pentax APSC Mirrorless is real but not really soon, I don't think. I suspect it will be like K-1 - a solid offering, fabulous IQ, some innovation around the edges. My only real doubt is video.

I think there is a strong argument for a native K-mount Mirrorless, but after K-01 I think it unlikely (although I think 'the market' is incorrect in that regard).

I think there will always be a place for dSLR's; MILC's have as many fundamental, irreconcilable limitations as they have strengths.
09-19-2016, 07:20 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I'd bet a Pentax APSc MILC will cost more than K-1, so many will be disappointed. There's no marketing justification for making a retro or add-style Pentax MILC. It wouldn't sell enough units to justify the cost.

Pentax APSC Mirrorless is real but not really soon, I don't think. I suspect it will be like K-1 - a solid offering, fabulous IQ, some innovation around the edges. My only real doubt is video.
There is no reason for it to cost more than the Canon EOS-M5 ... in fact, based on how Pentax cameras usually compare to Canon cameras, I would expect its priced to be closer to a K-70 than to a K-1.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I think there is a strong argument for a native K-mount Mirrorless, but after K-01 I think it unlikely (although I think 'the market' is incorrect in that regard).

I think there will always be a place for dSLR's; MILC's have as many fundamental, irreconcilable limitations as they have strengths.
I'm sure there will always be professional level DSLR's, but the "fundamental, irreconcilable limitations" don't necessarily apply to things valued by consumer level users.
09-19-2016, 07:28 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Canon EOS-M5 will be a good test of your theory.
For once, Canon seems to be doing it right, and based on my email, this effort is getting marketing support.

I don't know. I think mirrorless is the dead end of photography. It is not a plausible solution because the the way it is done across the brands is not dictated by sound camera and optics engineering. It is driven by rock bottom line of cutting the cost down.

On the other hand, I am all for large sensor fixed lens mirrorless cameras, like the GR and Leica Q; they are all-in-one solutions that work great. They provide respite and independence from problems of any system.

If Pentax announces they will stop selling DSLRs and switch to mirrorless for whatever reason, I'll buy five K3IIs and store them. I don't want to hear about another mirrorless mount anymore.
09-19-2016, 07:31 PM   #117
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Oly M1 mk2....looks good


Pano G80 looks good too


Pano Gh5....6K video....yahoo


These 3 leave the Canon M5 behind.
09-19-2016, 07:34 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
I don't know. I think mirrorless is the dead end of photography. It is not a plausible solution because the the way it is done across the brands is not dictated by sound camera and optics engineering. It is driven by rock bottom line of cutting the cost down.

On the other hand, I am all for large sensor fixed lens mirrorless cameras, like the GR and Leica Q; they are all-in-one solutions that work great. They provide respite and independence from problems of any system.

If Pentax announces they will stop selling DSLRs and switch to mirrorless for whatever reason, I'll buy five K3IIs and store them. I don't want to hear about another mirrorless mount anymore.
As I've said multiple times already, I'm quite sure that DSLR's will remain for professional users {K-3 and up}, but I believe that MILC's are going to come to dominate the consumer level. Only time will tell - I don't see any point to a point counter-point discussion of this.
09-19-2016, 08:37 PM   #119
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My take on mirrorless as it relates to real pro's or those who shoot with pro gear is that it's ALL about the electronic viewfinders becoming good enough someday that eventually people will give up the requirement of an optical view. And as it's been stated, that removes the need for a mirror. That reduces, for the better, the distance the last lens element must be to the sensor. There are size, weight, and optical benefits here. With the mirrorless system there are silent shutter benefits, low-light viewfinder visibility benefits And then that requires a new line of lenses to mate to this design. I think Ricoh knows that if they go in, they gotta go in big and try to do something special, something better.

I think that in 4 to 5 years, we'll see a critical mass huge number of pro-shooters happily adopt a new mirrorless, interchangeable system if the mirrorless tech keeps developing at this impressive rate. And I think the DSLR will be around for a long, long time, just far less dominant in the pro world as it is today.

Just speculating.

B
09-19-2016, 08:42 PM - 4 Likes   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
IMO just about everything in this post is overstated.
Hyperbole is a firm requirement for all rumor threads and following comments. Failure to do so will lead to severe beating and being visited by Uluru in your dreams.


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