[surfar]

Uluru

Is between a rock and a hard place, Well actually a ROCK and a hard place to get to.

---------- Post added 09-20-16 at 03:06 PM ----------

4 to 5 years, we'll see a critical mass huge number of pro-shooters happily adopt a new mirrorless, interchangeable system

It may be a bit sooner than that, FF mirrorless is moving fast, MF is starting to move.....M43 is expanding rapidly

[MJKoski]

All this talk about EVF with MILC. Why? Many photogs compose only with liveview when using tripod. And many use tripod to shoot. Fuji just did the right thing with the MF GFX system - EVF is optional. Pentax K-1 would be much more interesting as a flat body MILC, and no, it does not need to be SMALL flat body. Flat = adapter support, short flange distance.

EVF and OVF are bad ergonomics in their own right and cause neck failure in the long run with some use cases.

I used Sony A7x from 2013 to 2016 and NEVER used EVF to compose. Not once.

[Zygonyx]

Just take the one that brings you more shooting pleasure (for both eyes and hands) costs less money, and uses less power for similar if not better results...

[Kunzite]

IMO just about everything in this post is overstated.

It almost sounds like Fujifilm marketing material (except for calling retro a fad).

As I keep saying, with the DSLR market still 3 times the size of the MILCs, the idea that Ricoh Imaging should jump to MILCs (according to some, abandoning DSLRs) in a panic is ridiculous. Yet the MILC folks are celebrating 10 years since DSLRs died or something.

All this talk about EVF with MILC. Why? Many photogs compose only with liveview when using tripod. And many use tripod to shoot. Fuji just did the right thing with the MF GFX system - EVF is optional. Pentax K-1 would be much more interesting as a flat body MILC, and no, it does not need to be SMALL flat body. Flat = adapter support, short flange distance.

EVF and OVF are bad ergonomics in their own right and cause neck failure in the long run with some use cases.

I used Sony A7x from 2013 to 2016 and NEVER used EVF to compose. Not once.

You realize you're speaking for yourself, right? And that you're a bit... atypical. Not everyone is shooting exclusively on a tripod in a studio or well-shaded areas.
As Pentax users, our tool of choice is a DSLR; a K-1 would not be improved as a flat body MILC, it would be made useless. And on outdoor tools, viewfinders are essential.

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Last edited by Kunzite; 09-20-2016 at 01:23 AM.

[Fogel70]

[/COLOR]

well, im a frequenter of fuji forums, and know a bunch of Df owners, and none i know of have gone 'auto'. but even if they did, thats not a comment on analogue, but rather a comment on users. in the end, after IQ, its about choice and flexibility.

It's not about going auto, it's that the retro interface has compromises that make it more difficult to use than it has to be.

FI on NIkon Df it's not much point in going auto as the exp comp dial is on the left side of the camera, so it's often easier to use full manual instead of semi-auto. And the locks on the dials do not help making it easy controlling exposure.
SS dial only support full stops so if you want to fine tune SS you also have to use front or rear wheel too for SS, so some just stop using the top SS dial as it's redundant.
Most modern Nikon lenses don't have aperture ring, so then the front or rear wheel has to be used for aperture.
In the case of Df I think the "looks" had higher priority than ease of use.

Fuji does the retro interface better than Nikon, but as I remember from testing Fuji camera a few years ago there where similar limitations on fuji cameras too.
It took a while before I understood FI that exp comp dial was not always available, which is strange when there is a dedicated dial for it.

[MJKoski]

As Pentax users, our tool of choice is a DSLR; a K-1 would not be improved as a flat body MILC, it would be made useless. And on outdoor tools, viewfinders are essential.

Not useless, but 10x more use. What comes to lenses, an adapter would allow using all brand lenses instead of pure K-mount lenses. It would by default ship with K-mount adapter. Or, think of Ricoh GX (the sensor module camera). By default it could have K-mount module. This would reduce the changes for adapter decentering problems.

And, many landscapers shoot only on tripod. The LCD display needs more love to make it shine. For one, it should have retina grade resolution to allow more precise focusing.

[Kunzite]

Wrong. It would be useless for everyone wanting a DSLR.

[MJKoski]

Yeaah...so every pentax user wants a DSLR?

I want a black box into which I connect needed modules like pistol grip, retina display and appropriate lens mount module. Simple as that.

[monochrome]

Read yesterday that drivable cars will be dead by 2025.

[rbelyell]

It's not about going auto, it's that the retro interface has compromises that make it more difficult to use than it has to be.

FI on NIkon Df it's not much point in going auto as the exp comp dial is on the left side of the camera, so it's often easier to use full manual instead of semi-auto. And the locks on the dials do not help making it easy controlling exposure.
SS dial only support full stops so if you want to fine tune SS you also have to use front or rear wheel too for SS, so some just stop using the top SS dial as it's redundant.
Most modern Nikon lenses don't have aperture ring, so then the front or rear wheel has to be used for aperture.
In the case of Df I think the "looks" had higher priority than ease of use.

Fuji does the retro interface better than Nikon, but as I remember from testing Fuji camera a few years ago there where similar limitations on fuji cameras too.
It took a while before I understood FI that exp comp dial was not always available, which is strange when there is a dedicated dial for it.

im sorry, but i just dont agree. the presence of analogue dials simply do not themselves 'impose limitations' either on the camera or the user. if the Df didnt have locked dials there would be complaints about inadvertant movement. it seems youre looking for problems, and as every tool for every application has compromises, you are sure to find them! what these dials add is choice and flexibility. its ok not to want either, but it doesnt make sense to instruct those who do that their choice is in fact 'limiting' when its exactly the opposite!

[Uluru]

Steve

Broth.

---------- Post added 09-20-2016 at 10:32 PM ----------

im sorry, but i just dont agree. the presence of analogue dials simply do not themselves 'impose limitations' ...!

Voice control. We need cameras with voice control. No knobs and buttons; that is so Fuji-esque.
Whisper is also allowed (small headset supplied compatible with new iPhone).

But you must control them in Japanese.

[Pål Jensen]

Yeaah...so every pentax user wants a DSLR?.

Thats a reasonable assumption as every Pentax user (except for the Q users) has bought one...

Optical finder is a feature, not a problem.

The least Pentax needs now is another lens mount/lens line. They have four already with significant holes that need filling. Canon and Nikon have it easy in comparison....

[Kunzite]

My point exactly.
Unless there are people who bought a DSLR by mistake... but that's not Pentax' fault, and those are the worst people to listen to.

A new lens mount/line might be feasible later on (after the D FA line is reasonably complete). They could just start to build some user base, to be active on the large sensor MILC market, instead of expensively going all out in a futile attempt at market leadership.
But, I'm not interested - it's K-mount DSLR for me.

[Blacknight659]

I have considered this possibility for a while. I think they can do it and do it well. IF they do it, I hope it is done with a new mount, but the camera comes with an included K adapter that is WR and allows for full compatibility with no compromise.

If you go mirror-less, you might as well change the mount too. Otherwise, you end up with a Sigma SD Quattro with that build in flange. I think that is silly, since you physically have space for a mirror box, but aren't using it.

Lets not forget, they could adopt the Micro 4/3 open mount and use the 20mp sensor found there. That would allow for Pentax quality and then the ability to use the vast range of lenses out there for micro 4/3. I would HIGHTLY consider this camera if it were designed.

[D1N0]

They could just enlarge the q-mount