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09-26-2016, 12:06 AM   #286
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/321561-sigma-85mm-f...ml#post3783018

Tomorrow I will give all the news of the Photokina I've got.
No number of sales or anything else like that,but some maybe interesting stuff about the situation about K-1 and K-? and the current sensor problem and lens situation.
Best regards
OK! We are waiting for your feedback! I'm especially interested in the sensor white dots issue and whether any new (very!) long lenses are on their way!

09-26-2016, 12:16 AM   #287
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Can't we at least just agree that Photokina was an opportunity for Pentax to at least put out a press release answering some of these questions? The reason we speculate is to fill a void of information.
09-26-2016, 12:19 AM   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by brokeh Quote
Can't we at least just agree that Photokina was an opportunity for Pentax to at least put out a press release answering some of these questions? The reason we speculate is to fill a void of information.
I wouldn't be looking at any trade show to provide answers, Brokeh. The K-1 was not released at such an event, Apple products never are, etc.

Important people do attend, though, so if you haven't yet, you should check out Adam's interview with the Ricoh Imaging chairman.
09-26-2016, 01:01 AM   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
While the big fish fight to win big markets and overinvest to maintain their bloated big fish bodies, smaller fish can cater to more specialized needs or offer something different. They don't have to "win" they only need to know how to play the new game.
I worked for 13 years for a small, family owned import /wholesale company, and if there's one thing I learned (I'm a slow learner ;D) - it's that it always looks like the big players have it all their own way, but you can be so much faster on your feet as a small guy - sure any new product that you introduce will get noticed if it's a good seller and you'll like as not be out-competed or exclusive deals will be set up that freeze you out, but there's always more products that you can have on your inventory that aren't available elsewhere (they're not worth the bigger guys stocking in the numbers they need to buy them to get their margins) - and customers who have an account with you to get those things will buy other stuff from you, even if it's available elsewhere. Not sure of any direct read-across to camera companies, but just to say yes - there are advantages in being little - you just have to recognise them and play to your strengths.

09-26-2016, 01:09 AM - 1 Like   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The generally accepted premise is Ricoh is intentionally allowing Imaging to grow by reinvesting its cash flow.

That was the apparent investment banking advice at the time the bankers' study determined direct and immediate competition with CaNikon (high volume / low margin business model) would require a $1.4 Billion capital investment and many years of losses significant enough to reduce parent company earnings. Ricoh also correctly foresaw the dramatic drop in dSLR sales beginning 4q2013 and chose a low volume / high margin strategy, avoiding much of the industry's current distress.
The imaging division is a small part of Ricoh. It would be reasonable to assume that a parent board is looking for a satisfactory return on investment under whatever plan has been agreed since absolute numbers in $$$ are pretty meaningless, being pretty insignificant in the greater company scheme barring extreme scenarios. But as you suggested earlier, X per cent figured at compound rates would sound pretty good to most folks as a longer-term goal. I realize this is an oversimplification but apart from satisfying curiosity, knowing how many $$$ the imaging division makes or fails to make isn't very important. I take the hint from the Panasonic boss who said of his own imaging division, in effect, "Make me 5 per cent or else". So far, the Pany guys have avoided the "or else". Until he joined Ricoh, the present head of the imaging division had spent his career in investment banking specializing in growing new companies, i.e. in creating value from start-ups, if I recall. A shrewd choice given what's happened in the overall market.

Last edited by mecrox; 09-26-2016 at 04:51 AM.
09-26-2016, 02:43 AM   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/321561-sigma-85mm-f...ml#post3783018

Tomorrow I will give all the news of the Photokina I've got.
No number of sales or anything else like that,but some maybe interesting stuff about the situation about K-1 and K-? and the current sensor problem and lens situation.
Best regards
Tease!
09-26-2016, 02:54 AM   #292
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sensor problem? Kunamoto? White Dots? Sony setting rules about the use of pdaf points?

QuoteOriginally posted by ricoh:
They work only in video mode
QuoteOriginally posted by ricoh:
We are not a video brand
contradictory much?
09-26-2016, 03:13 AM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
...
---------- Post added 26-09-16 at 02:39 AM ----------


What camera system would be that? Q? Because it makes no sense to think that way about Pentax K.
I have thought about his comment. It may concern the Fuji medium format camera rather than Q because most recent discussion has been of either Fuji MF or Pentax' economic strategy. Medium format cameras are not unique to Pentax. However, setting aside Phase and whoever else makes them, medium format is unique to Pentax as one of the companies (Nikon, Fuji, etc.) that sells cameras of other formats.

If this is the position, the 'demise' would not be of any Pentax mount/system itself but would be the uniqueness of the format [with respect to Pentax' position in the tier of manufacturers]. With Fuji making a medium format camera, Pentax is no longer unique among Canon or Olympus or etc.

In any case, it is an interesting comment to parse and this is how I read it...
Pentax has been unique among the manufacturers of small format cameras in that it offers medium format as well. With Fuji's introduction of their medium format camera, we are witnessing the demise of Pentax' uniqeness...

lytrytyr writes > Well, we may be witnessing the demise of the only current camera system that is unique to Pentax.


Last edited by Tan68; 09-26-2016 at 03:18 AM.
09-26-2016, 03:27 AM   #294
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I have a piece of profound commercial wisdom to offer:

If too few people buy the 645Z, it will cease production. This will occur if too few people want what it has to offer.

If too few people buy the GFX, it will cease production. This will occur if too few people want what it has to offer.

If enough people like both offerings to make them commercially viable - and they are very different offerings, then both will remain in production.

Time will tell.

You never know, Hasselblad and Phase One might even survive also.
09-26-2016, 06:48 AM   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
You never know, Hasselblad and Phase One might even survive also.
There is too much price compression. If Ricoh gets serious about MF they can destroy Phase One. Hassy is basically on borrowed time. They have been loosing money for several years now and they don't have the technology that Sony, Ricoh, or Fuji have. Ricoh has to get serious about tethering and studio work (leaf shutter).
09-26-2016, 07:10 AM   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
I have a piece of profound commercial wisdom to offer:

If too few people buy the 645Z, it will cease production. This will occur if too few people want what it has to offer.

If too few people buy the GFX, it will cease production. This will occur if too few people want what it has to offer.

If enough people like both offerings to make them commercially viable - and they are very different offerings, then both will remain in production.

Time will tell.

You never know, Hasselblad and Phase One might even survive also.
The price is high enough on medium format cameras that they don't need to sell very many copies to remain viable -- in particular for companies where they can share technology between camera levels -- like Pentax between 645z and the K3. It is entirely possible that 5,000 cameras a year with the requisite lens sales is more than enough to make these cameras worthwhile.
09-26-2016, 07:36 AM   #297
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
There is too much price compression. If Ricoh gets serious about MF they can destroy Phase One. Hassy is basically on borrowed time. They have been loosing money for several years now and they don't have the technology that Sony, Ricoh, or Fuji have. Ricoh has to get serious about tethering and studio work (leaf shutter).
Why do you refer to leaf shutter in the context of studio work? I would love to have a leaf shutter everywhere - they're so much quieter than focal plane.
09-26-2016, 07:57 AM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Why do you refer to leaf shutter in the context of studio work? I would love to have a leaf shutter everywhere - they're so much quieter than focal plane.
It is more practical for studio, but yes people working outside with strobes can use them too. Leaf shutters are more expensive and usually 1/2000 of a second is as fast as they can go. Smaller lenses can go faster. I like them for the sync speed. Ricoh needs a 645 that can use leaf shutter lenses, and about 3 good lenses.
09-26-2016, 08:28 AM   #299
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't really buy it. Ricoh has invested a lot in Pentax and the idea that they are just going to pitch it to the way side is ridiculous.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ishpuini Quote
Many Photokina 2016 reports around by now, each with its own accents. Here's mine:
Ricoh/Pentax:
- Q: I asked: is the Q system dead? Answer: Yes (no hesitation).
This space intentionally left blank.

---------- Post added 09-26-16 at 10:32 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I would love to have a leaf shutter everywhere - they're so much quieter than focal plane.
Yet another advantage of the Q system, building on the stealth factor of the small size.

Of course, there are also electronic shutters, but you'd better like Jello!
09-26-2016, 09:02 AM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I don't think this downsized format deserves to be called MF*))
So you don't consider the 645z to be a medium formant camera? I think there are only a couple medium format cameras that are using larger sensors. One from Hassey (HC6-100D) and 4-5 from Pahse One. All the other MF cameras use the same size sensor as the Pentax 645, Fuji GFX, Hassy X1D, Hassy HC6-50D, HD-5, HD5X, IQ1, IQ3.....

Most of the MF sensors are this size so the GFX competes sell with most other MF cameras except that is it 1/2 the size and 1/3-1/4 the cost.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
BTW, the X-mount has a 44mm diameter. That's bigger than the K-mount's diameter (42mm). Apparently, the shorter registration distance of the X-mount demands bigger throats even for a smaller image circle.
Yes the shorter the register distance the more perpendicular the light needs to be striking the sensor, so the mount has to be larger. BSI sensors help, but its still better to have a lens that doesn't project light at an angle to the sensor. There are also advantages in the sharpness of the image.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I'm sure you will agree that the level of success Fuji has enjoyed with their X-mount is not primarily based on limiting the mount size.
Part of it is. Part of the appeal of the X-mount is the compact size, just as it is for the DA Limited Pentax Lenses. Fuji did what Pentax did well and applied it to a mirrorless system. Designing lenses specifically for APS-C allows them to produce really good optics in a smaller package. That plays a big role in the success. To me the Fuji X-T2 is too small and I need the grip, but for a lot of people with small hands (many women) it is the perfect system.
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Currently a full-frame 645D may not be in the same market segment as the Fuji GFX (who knows what Fuji will sell it for, though?), but as the price of a full-frame 645D comes down it will either join the Fuji GFX in the same segment, or the GFX will be pushed to lower margin shores.
Maybe. The 645 system seems to be an after thought to Ricoh. The lenses need to be updated and I don't think Ricoh has the resources to update the 645 line and get the more important FF glass on the market. Hopefully I'm wrong. Hopefully we see more development on the 645 line in the near future.
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