[beholder3]

I suggest you bugger off and buy a Nikon, although Nikon is bankrupt in few years if they can't turn things around soon

Why? Nikon has been increasing its market share in compact year over year. For compacts I believe they now are clear market leader with 30%. In 2010 they only had 11,2%.

Does anyone care that their imaging profits are back to 2005/2006 levels?

[Mistral75]

This is wrong. Keep your facts correct if you gonna complain. Its assembled by Tamron in in Tamron tubes. Coating and glass is Pentax made. That doesn't make it a rebrand. It had to be done this way due to minimal production lines at Pentax.

(...)

Since when is Pentax making glass?

[kenspo]

Nikon are bleeding most of all camera brands at the moment! They have layoffs in many countries. Just here in Norway, they had to reduce staff from 13 to 3..and get rid of locations and have office at home. This is how things are behind the numbers on the paper

[Zygonyx]

Beholder3 : This is not really reflected in their falling slr sales, at the worst rate known in the profession...

[mee]

No. Some things simply don't add up. I started my suspicions when the K-1 was announced, then postponed. And when the K-1 came out, the specs of the machine (which were worse in many regards than K-3), rebranding of Tamrons, endless cheapo plastic and kit lenses released, made me think. I think Ricoh avoids any serious commitment within the existing ecosystem. They issue things with minimal effort possible. Preserving most of their energy for something else?

Now I am almost convinced that we are served side-dishes while they cook the main course. K-70 foretells their next cameras may freak out many folks.

It seems more, to me, they are being very cautious fiscally with where they invest their money. It does seem the APS-C line is getting more of the consumer level products as of late (past couple of years on lenses). And, with them working on primes for the K-1, I don't foresee any updates to DA* next year at the earliest.

Actually, the PF interview just posted on the front page sort of alludes to that with RIAC's response to lenses being to use FF lenses on your APS-C.

Perhaps RIAC saw the deep level of interest in the K-1, compared to any crop body they've released, and decided that is where the money is located? The interview is also interesting to me in the response about having a broad product line (up into last year would have been boasted about by RIAC) is now considered a potential liability to them (in that they claim it could be confusing to the consumer).

This tells me they are more or less looking to direct their developments to the higher end items (FF and MF) while keeping APS-C around as more or less an entry/mid level into Pentax. Less resources on crop and much more on FF. That said, it is pretty much what Canon does too.. they are just much larger so the product lines are deeper.

[kenspo]

Since when is Pentax making glass?

Maybe the wrong way to write it. They didn't make it them self in their own factory. (not sure how much i can share of what i know). The point was, that its not the same glass as Tamron have used in their versions. I can explain a lot better in norwegian

[Pål Jensen]

Why? Nikon has been increasing its market share in compact year over year. For compacts I believe they now are clear market leader with 30%. In 2010 they only had 11,2%.)

But the compact market is all but disappeared; cell phones are taking over. No use have an increased share in a non-existent market. I'm pretty sure Nikons volume is going down in compact.

[mee]

Nikon are bleeding most of all camera brands at the moment! They have layoffs in many countries. Just here in Norway, they had to reduce staff from 13 to 3..and get rid of locations and have office at home. This is how things are behind the numbers on the paper

They were larger to begin with.. now that the market is shrinking, so do they.

That doesn't mean they will fold any time soon. If anything, they have an advantage (and a large one at that) by having a high brand recognition and userbase. If RIAC can stay afloat with such a relatively small userbase, so can Nikon and they'll still have a good shot at staying around at #2 in the market as a result of their aforementioned advantages.

That is to say, I wouldn't hold my breath on any Nikon fire sales anytime soon.. if at all.

[Pål Jensen]

I

Perhaps RIAC saw the deep level of interest in the K-1, compared to any crop body they've released, and decided that is where the money is located? The interview is also interesting to me in the response about having a broad product line (up into last year would have been boasted about by RIAC) is now considered a potential liability to them (in that they claim it could be confusing to the consumer).

This tells me they are more or less looking to direct their developments to the higher end items (FF and MF) while keeping APS-C around as more or less an entry/mid level into Pentax. Less resources on crop and much more on FF. That said, it is pretty much what Canon does too.. they are just much larger so the product lines are deeper.

Don't think so. It is business as usual. FF lenses makes sense on both FF (obviously) and APS.
I wouldn't expect another FF camera from Pentax until the K-1 is replaced...

[mee]

Don't think so. It is business as usual. FF lenses makes sense on both FF (obviously) and APS.
I wouldn't expect another FF camera from Pentax until the K-1 is replaced...

I never mentioned new FF camera from Pentax. I was referring to lenses.

The place where FF doesn't make sense on APS-C is in cost and weight/size. Which are attractive points to APS-C.

[kenspo]

They were larger to begin with.. now that the market is shrinking, so do they.

That doesn't mean they will fold any time soon. If anything, they have an advantage (and a large one at that) by having a high brand recognition and userbase. If RIAC can stay afloat with such a relatively small userbase, so can Nikon and they'll still have a good shot at staying around at #2 in the market as a result of their aforementioned advantages.

That is to say, I wouldn't hold my breath on any Nikon fire sales anytime soon.. if at all.

Its a big and hard ship to turn when things starting to go wrong I know for a fact that Sony are circling around Nikons camera division like a shark in the water smelling blood.

[Pål Jensen]

That doesn't mean they will fold any time soon. If anything, they have an advantage (and a large one at that) by having a high brand recognition and userbase. If RIAC can stay afloat with such a relatively small userbase, so can Nikon and they'll still have a good shot at staying around at #2 in the market as a result of their aforementioned advantages.

That is to say, I wouldn't hold my breath on any Nikon fire sales anytime soon.. if at all.

That is both an advantage and a disadvantage. The problem is that Nikon have factories and employees geared for making millions of cameras a year. That makes then vulnerable.
Pentax is in a much better position. Having filled manufacturing capacity in a shrinking market.

---------- Post added 09-24-16 at 03:36 PM ----------

The place where FF doesn't make sense on APS-C is in cost and weight/size. Which are attractive points to APS-C.

For telephoto lenses there's no difference in weight and hardly in cost whether the lens is made for FF or APS. You do get size advantage on APS as you can use a 50% shorter focal lenght for the same angle of view.

[biz-engineer]

Actually, the PF interview just posted on the front page sort of alludes to that with RIAC's response to lenses being to use FF lenses on your APS-C.

The interview contains a lot of information.

[Mistral75]

Nikon are bleeding most of all camera brands at the moment! They have layoffs in many countries. Just here in Norway, they had to reduce staff from 13 to 3..and get rid of locations and have office at home. This is how things are behind the numbers on the paper

They were larger to begin with.. now that the market is shrinking, so do they.

That doesn't mean they will fold any time soon. If anything, they have an advantage (and a large one at that) by having a high brand recognition and userbase. If RIAC can stay afloat with such a relatively small userbase, so can Nikon and they'll still have a good shot at staying around at #2 in the market as a result of their aforementioned advantages.

That is to say, I wouldn't hold my breath on any Nikon fire sales anytime soon.. if at all.

This is what Dr Andreas Kaufmann, Leica chairman, said in an interview with Focus Numérique during Photokina:

Photokina 2016 ? Entretien avec Andreas Kaufmann, président de Leica

My English translation of the last paragraph:

Are you optimistic about the future of the photography market in, say, 10 years?

If all goes well, it will be a very exciting market with many new things. But, if everything does not go perfectly and deep changes are not undertaken, some competitors will inevitably disappear. Some have already withdrawn, like Samsung, others already have a foot in the grave. (Silence) I really do not want this to happen that way, because as a historical actor we do not want to see a long-time companion pass away, even if it's a rival. But if they do not move fast enough, I greatly fear for their future. What is certain is that Leica will never enter the action cam market. It was launched, forged, consolidated and locked by GoPro, which have incredible marketing resources. Above all, this is a market that is declining rapidly and we do not want to be part of his fall along with GoPro. Anyway, what are action cams outside of holiday? You won’t film yourself while you are working, will you? (Laughs) The only niche market which Leica has wanted to enter for ten years is the smartphone market. But hey, this is not really a niche ... If you really want to make money, the film industry seems much more appropriate to me and I'm thrilled that Sigma think the same as we do.

[mee]

Its a big and hard ship to turn when things starting to go wrong I know for a fact that Sony are circling around Nikons camera division like a shark in the water smelling blood.

Yes, I've read for well over a decade of Nikon's impending doom. Mostly due to them being primarily a camera maker (as opposed to say Canon which has a strong Printer/Copier division and just spent ~6 billion USD on Toshiba Medical) and thus not so diversified against a shifting market.

They will have to shrink relatively fast. Whether they do or not is up in the air. But, if they can, there is still a market for them. It will just be a smaller one.