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10-03-2016, 03:21 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Dollar / Yen Exchange Rate last 12 months
How about Dollar/Peso?

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10-03-2016, 03:30 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by farhagh Quote
How about Dollar/Peso?
Meaningful.
10-03-2016, 04:04 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
To you, yes. But you are not the entire market.
Precisely! Neither are you with your estimates of it being worth 2400 dollars.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Right now Ricoh is selling all they can make and there is a waiting list some places, so yes. It is under priced for the general market. If it were over priced there would be a surplus.
Not necessarily true. Especially if the market is trained to expect 3000+ dollar FF bodies.
10-03-2016, 06:09 PM - 2 Likes   #64
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I'm one of the Pentax members miffed about the increase in price of the K-1. I was planning to get one, but the price increase started me thinking do I need a K-1, do I need a 15-30 or a 24-70 F 2.8...to go with the new body ? Well maybe not the 24-70.

I started thinking, maybe not. I've been very happy, so far with my ASP-C bodies, K5, K10D Km. I do make some 8 X 10 prints every so often, occasionally an 11 X 14, but nothing bigger than that. Mostly I make 5 X 7's. I look at the print quality from these three cameras and my assortment of Pentax and one Sigma lens, and I have to say the pix in this size range are really sharp. Excellent quality really from ASP-C. Hard to think that the quality from these size prints could get any better, in my opinion.

When I analyze why I wanted the K-1 full frame and new FF lenses, it started to seem mostly because it was the newest, greatest, improved toy. That's me, though, remember others may differ.

There used to be a car show on TV and the host would test muscle cars, etc. He would then extol the virtues of the latest Ferrari, but then would pose the question to himself. Do I want this car, or do I need it ? Then for the most part he would come to the on air revelation, that really he just wanted it. Well that was me and the K-1.

I had a self imposed budget and the K-1 went up a couple hundred bucks. The price increase won't kill me, but it did make me question my motives. I can safely say that the K-1, plus one or two rebadged Tamron lenses...fall into my want category, not my need category.

Still not sure what I will do. We'll see. But lately I've kicked myself, I should of bought a new 645D, with the 'free' 75 mm lens....when it was at the clear out price of $3,995.00 USD awhile ago.

In the film days I did a lot of medium format (Mamiya system) ...I still miss it when I look at the pictures in this forum's medium format photographs.

What to do, but I have the luxury of not being in too much of a hurry. Ricoh, it's your move next.


Last edited by lesmore49; 10-03-2016 at 06:15 PM.
10-03-2016, 06:11 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Precisely! Neither are you with your estimates of it being worth 2400 dollars.
I'm estimating market value, not what I would pay and yes.... estimate is all I can do.



QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Not necessarily true. Especially if the market is trained to expect 3000+ dollar FF bodies.
Yes. true. If the body was actually overpriced there would be a surplus. Price is a function of supply and demand. Anytime supply fails to keep up with demand prices rise. We know Ricoh can't keep up with demand right now because of the problems Sony is having. Prices will rise.

The Japanese spent several years trying to devalue their currency. They recently announced they were abandoning the failing inflationary policy and the value of the Yen has rebounded. It was being kept artificially low. If the K-1 were made in Japan that would be a big deal, but the K-1 isn't entirely made in Japan, so the rising value of the Yen isn't having as much of an effect on the K-1 as people seem to think. As the Yen rises the real cost of assembly in the Philippines falls. Ricoh is paying in the Philippine peso, not the Yen. Sigma on the other hand manufacturers every thing in Japan and all of their suppliers are in Japan so when the Yen rises their product become more expensive for foreigners to purchase.

Companies in countries with strong currencies move manufacturing to countries with weak currencies for this very reason.
10-03-2016, 06:36 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
I'm one of the Pentax members miffed about the increase in price of the K-1. I was planning to get one, but the price increase started me thinking do I need a K-1, do I need a 15-30 or a 24-70 F 2.8...to go with the new body ? Well maybe not the 24-70.

I started thinking, maybe not. I've been very happy, so far with my ASP-C bodies, K5, K10D Km. I do make some 8 X 10 prints every so often, occasionally an 11 X 14, but nothing bigger than that. Mostly I make 5 X 7's. I look at the print quality from these three cameras and my assortment of Pentax and one Sigma lens, and I have to say the pix in this size range are really sharp. Excellent quality really from ASP-C. Hard to think that the quality from these size prints could get any better, in my opinion.

When I analyze why I wanted the K-1 full frame and new FF lenses, it started to seem mostly because it was the newest, greatest, improved toy. That's me, though, remember others may differ.

There used to be a car show on TV and the host would test muscle cars, etc. He would then extol the virtues of the latest Ferrari, but then would pose the question to himself. Do I want this car, or do I need it ? Then for the most part he would come to the on air revelation, that really he just wanted it. Well that was me and the K-1.

I had a self imposed budget and the K-1 went up a couple hundred bucks. The price increase won't kill me, but it did make me question my motives. I can safely say that the K-1, plus one or two rebadged Tamron lenses...fall into my want category, not my need category.

Still not sure what I will do. We'll see. But lately I've kicked myself, I should of bought a new 645D, with the 'free' 75 mm lens....when it was at the clear out price of $3,995.00 USD awhile ago.

In the film days I did a lot of medium format (Mamiya system) ...I still miss it when I look at the pictures in this forum's medium format photographs.

What to do, but I have the luxury of not being in too much of a hurry. Ricoh, it's your move next.
Price from Canadian dealer is cheaper than in the US right now
Pentax K-1 - Canada and Cross-Border Price Comparison - photoprice.ca
You can change to your province.
10-03-2016, 07:04 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I'm estimating market value, not what I would pay and yes.... estimate is all I can do.
So you're guessing on behalf of the market as a whole. You just scolded me for doing the same thing (even though I was only speaking on my behalf, and clearly indicated so).


QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Yes. true. If the body was actually overpriced there would be a surplus. Price is a function of supply and demand. Anytime supply fails to keep up with demand prices rise. We know Ricoh can't keep up with demand right now because of the problems Sony is having. Prices will rise.

The Japanese spent several years trying to devalue their currency. They recently announced they were abandoning the failing inflationary policy and the value of the Yen has rebounded. It was being kept artificially low. If the K-1 were made in Japan that would be a big deal, but the K-1 isn't entirely made in Japan, so the rising value of the Yen isn't having as much of an effect on the K-1 as people seem to think. As the Yen rises the real cost of assembly in the Philippines falls. Ricoh is paying in the Philippine peso, not the Yen. Sigma on the other hand manufacturers every thing in Japan and all of their suppliers are in Japan so when the Yen rises their product become more expensive for foreigners to purchase.

Companies in countries with strong currencies move manufacturing to countries with weak currencies for this very reason.
No, again not necessarily true. There would only be a "surplus" if the body was "overpriced" to an extreme. And that extreme would be dictated by what the market considered a fair price. We've had over 10 years of 2-6k dollar FF bodies. The 'market' has long grown accustomed to that set price range (you too, apparently). Ricoh cut some of the fluff from the price to make it more attractive. Yet they offered few units and the demand was high from a long list of people waiting eons for the product to arrive. What do you think would happen?

If I sell 10 widgets and there are 20 people who each want one of the 10 widgets, then obviously I have a shortage. It doesn't inherently mean the widget was under priced. Unless I'm attempting to maximize profit per unit. In the case of Ricoh, we don't know what their reasoning for their pricing is. But it seems profit per unit is not their singular end goal. They still clearly are cutting a profit of some sort off of each K-1 sold... they're not loss leaders.

Quite frankly, from the salivating on the forums, those first shipments of the K-1 could have indeed sold for much more. Yet then they still would have been underpriced according to your logic. Since you are only considering a connection of demand vs price.

Rioch had the same 'problem' with the demand for the 645z.... they offered few at the start and the demand was high. Back then they didn't have an earthquake to blame.
10-03-2016, 07:08 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I'm estimating market value, not what I would pay and yes.... estimate is all I can do.




Yes. true. If the body was actually overpriced there would be a surplus. Price is a function of supply and demand. Anytime supply fails to keep up with demand prices rise. We know Ricoh can't keep up with demand right now because of the problems Sony is having. Prices will rise.

The Japanese spent several years trying to devalue their currency. They recently announced they were abandoning the failing inflationary policy and the value of the Yen has rebounded. It was being kept artificially low. If the K-1 were made in Japan that would be a big deal, but the K-1 isn't entirely made in Japan, so the rising value of the Yen isn't having as much of an effect on the K-1 as people seem to think. As the Yen rises the real cost of assembly in the Philippines falls. Ricoh is paying in the Philippine peso, not the Yen. Sigma on the other hand manufacturers every thing in Japan and all of their suppliers are in Japan so when the Yen rises their product become more expensive for foreigners to purchase.

Companies in countries with strong currencies move manufacturing to countries with weak currencies for this very reason.
Don't infer intent from appearance. Ricoh guaranteed the factory price the first 6 months, 03/27 - 09/30.

It doesn't matter where they manufacture the camera. Ricoh sells it to the distributors in Yen. Yen cost 10% more US Dollars today than they did in March. Yen cost nearly 10% more Euro today than they did in March. Yen cost the same Canadian Dollars today as they did in March.

That is all.

Q.E.D.


Last edited by monochrome; 10-03-2016 at 07:40 PM.
10-03-2016, 07:24 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
No, again not necessarily true. There would only be a "surplus" if the body was "overpriced" to an extreme. And that extreme would be dictated by what the market considered a fair price. We've had over 10 years of 2-6k dollar FF bodies. The 'market' has long grown accustomed to that set price range (you too, apparently). Ricoh cut some of the fluff from the price to make it more attractive. Yet they offered few units and the demand was high from a long list of people waiting eons for the product to arrive. What do you think would happen?

If I sell 10 widgets and there are 20 people who each want one of the 10 widgets, then obviously I have a shortage. It doesn't inherently mean the widget was under priced. Unless I'm attempting to maximize profit per unit. In the case of Ricoh, we don't know what their reasoning for their pricing is. But it seems profit per unit is not their singular end goal. They still clearly are cutting a profit of some sort off of each K-1 sold... they're not loss leaders.
You need to buy an economics book if you think that is how it works.

If you have 10 widgets for sale at $1.00 each and you have 20 people who want to buy, then by definition you have a shortage. Demand is greater than supply at that price. A shortage by definition: "A shortage is a situation in which demand for a good or service exceeds the available supply". Whether or not you are attempting to maximize profit is irrelevant to the definition of the term. Good intentions, bad intentions.... The definition of a shortage doesn't change based on your intentions.
10-03-2016, 07:34 PM   #70
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Perhaps the k3ll replacement will be more expensive than previous apsc flagship models and Pentax needs to increase the price of the K1 to make room.
10-03-2016, 07:38 PM - 1 Like   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
A shortage is a situation in which demand for a good or service exceeds the available supply"
Technically, this should say "Quantity demanded exceeds quantity supplied". Demand and Supply are curves and they dont exceed each other. Just saying, since we are starting to get real precise now
10-03-2016, 07:42 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by oxidized Quote
Technically, this should say "Quantity demanded exceeds quantity supplied". Demand and Supply are curves and they dont exceed each other. Just saying, since we are starting to get real precise now
And then price elasticity of demand starts to appear. Revenue is maximized when price is set so PED is precisely 1.

K-1 sales should decline by 10% forthwith in EU and USA if price was set to PED = 1

But it wasn't. This is currency exchange, nothing more, nothing less.


Last edited by monochrome; 10-03-2016 at 07:52 PM.
10-03-2016, 07:45 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
It doesn't matter where they manufacture the camera. Ricoh sells it to the distributors in Yen.
Yes it does. That is why manufacturers based in countries with a strong currency move their plants to countries with weak currencies. You offset the effect of a strong currency. Ricoh buys many of the components for the K-1 from other countries, so as the Yen gets stronger Ricoh has more buying power. Labor to assemble the cameras becomes cheaper.

Sigma on the other hand is all made in Japan and even their components suppliers are based in Japan. Sigma can't offset the negative impact of a strong currency on its products. When the Yen gets stronger that means all of the components that go into their lenses become more expensive. When Ricoh was running big sales every month people were claiming it was due to the weak Yen, but now prices are rising they claim its due to a strong Yen. Sigma's prices have remained constant through all of the BS and they are also a Japanese company. Sigma is more sensitive to changes in the Yen than Ricoh.

---------- Post added 10-03-16 at 09:46 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by oxidized Quote
Technically, this should say "Quantity demanded exceeds quantity supplied". Demand and Supply are curves and they dont exceed each other. Just saying, since we are starting to get real precise now
Yes. Thank you.
10-03-2016, 07:50 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
You need to buy an economics book if you think that is how it works.

If you have 10 widgets for sale at $1.00 each and you have 20 people who want to buy, then by definition you have a shortage. Demand is greater than supply at that price. A shortage by definition: "A shortage is a situation in which demand for a good or service exceeds the available supply". Whether or not you are attempting to maximize profit is irrelevant to the definition of the term. Good intentions, bad intentions.... The definition of a shortage doesn't change based on your intentions.
But I just said that...
10-03-2016, 07:51 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
Price from Canadian dealer is cheaper than in the US right now
Pentax K-1 - Canada and Cross-Border Price Comparison - photoprice.ca
You can change to your province.
Camera stores here, match prices of any bricks and sticks competitor in Canada. My province has the highest (I believe) sales tax in Canada at 9 %...which I'm not happy about. I could always drive to Alberta though.
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