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10-04-2016, 08:16 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The K-1 is easily a $2,300 camera. It is under priced and supply is limited.
I don't know what the right value is, and there may in fact be some exchange rate drivers, but I have to wonder if Ricoh basically decided they had a real winner here with good market strength and the unit was basically underpriced. I am not sure how that explains the price remaining low for amazon and other sellers - maybe existing stock selling first? Though some may be affected by this price change, it feels to be a good indicator for Ricoh in the short term and all of us over the longer haul.

10-04-2016, 08:35 AM   #92
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The K-1 is still available on Amazon from Ritz Camera at the $1796.95 price.
10-04-2016, 09:05 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Do you really believe what you said?

Because the impression I get is, you think if one doesn't see the value in spending the extra money, they are poor. There is another option. It being if one doesn't see the value in spending the extra money, it is because they don't see the value in spending the extra money. Being rich or poor has nothing to do with that personal decision.

The only way it would actually come into effect is if they were living hand to mouth, spending all they had when they had it. But that is a terrible way to live when you have a choice (such as with buying hobby cameras). One bump in the road and they are selling their precious camera to pay their mortgage/rent/other bills.

As you said, for most here it is a question of how high do we price our 'wants.' If a commercial shooter was looking at this, they wouldn't even strongly question the price. They'd just buy because it is a business expense. Then again, how many full time photographers do we have actively posting on the forum? Most of us are full time in some other field.
I'm sorry if I caused offense, it wasn't intended.

For me, personally, there are many things that I am too "poor" to purchase, in that I have made other decisions with regard to my finances. Saving for retirement, college for my kids, and all sorts of things that come before material things. Maybe "poor" isn't the right word, since I could choose to ignore those things and buy some more expensive things that I want.

If my wife did not shoot professionally, I would probably make do with a K3. The fact that she makes money with her gear and feels like her wedding photography would improve with a full frame camera opened a door for us to purchase what is a very nice camera.

Is it over priced? I have no idea. It seems to offer a lot of similar features to the D810 for a lot less money and therefore seems like it is pretty reasonably priced, but not knowing the internal workings of Pentax and the cost of components, administrative and distribution costs, I really am not sure what the cost should be for a camera like this (understanding that this is a Pentax and will sell a tenth of the number of cameras that Nikon or Canon would sell with a similar model).

Last edited by Rondec; 10-04-2016 at 01:28 PM.
10-04-2016, 10:51 AM   #94
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It appears that the Pentax world is bifurcating into two camps.

1. Those who shoot Pentax APS-C bodies and inexpensive lenses.
2. Those who shoot K1's and expensive premium glass.

Sometimes these groups don't see things the same.

Example, group #2 sees the K1 at a huge bargain at $2000. Group #1 thinks the K1 is overpriced at any price that they can't afford.


Last edited by Fenwoodian; 10-04-2016 at 10:57 AM.
10-04-2016, 11:01 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Give me a list of countries with strong currencies and low real wages (not nominal). Pro-inflationary policies destroy wages and savings.

The Sony FE lenses are selling for the same price as they were 2 years ago. My Sony A7II is selling for the same price it was two years ago. Sigma lenses are selling for the same price. If the rise in the Yen is the reason for the price increase of the K-1 then why is it having the same effect on products from Sony and Sigma?

Since 1990 the average ratio of Dollar to Yen has been $1.00 to 104. Today it is $1.00 to 102.5.
Average exchange price is not relevant. During that time purchasing power of $1 has declined 45% while Yen PP has risen slightly (Japan has experienced deflation).

Over the last 10 years the Yen/USD exchange rate has ranged from 120:1 in 2007 down to 77:1 in 2011 to 123:1 4q 2014 through 1q16 to 104:1 today. If you look at the chart and think about the history of Pentax pricing in the USA, everything from dumping to price hike to MAP to K-1 can be explained by currencies.

XE.com - USD/JPY Chart

So if Sony FE lenses are merely expensive today they must have been ridiculously overpriced two years ago.

Last edited by monochrome; 10-04-2016 at 01:12 PM.
10-04-2016, 11:50 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
It appears that the Pentax world is bifurcating into two camps.

1. Those who shoot Pentax APS-C bodies and inexpensive lenses.
2. Those who shoot K1's and expensive premium glass.

Sometimes these groups don't see things the same.

Example, group #2 sees the K1 at a huge bargain at $2000. Group #1 thinks the K1 is overpriced at any price that they can't afford.
Prior to K-1 Group #2 jumped ship.
10-04-2016, 12:04 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Averave exchange price is not relevant.

Over the last 10 years the Yen/USD exchange rate has ranged from 120:1 in 2007 down to 77:1 in 2011 to 123:1 in 4q 2014 to 104:1 today. If you look at the chart and think about the history of Pentax pricing in the USA, everything from dumping to price hike to MAP to K-1 can be explained by currencies.

XE.com - USD/JPY Chart

So if Sony FE lenses are merely expensive today they must have been ridiculously overpriced two years ago.
Depends on how one looks at things. Yes, currency fluctuations are one way of looking at it, but so is Pentax's recent history as two new corporate owners arrive and decide to levy a tax on the userbase to offset their expenses. Who's to say? I'm fairly certain this is exactly what Hoya did. And items which didn't find a productive market were soon discounted and discontinued, as one would expect. Of course world economic conditions matter but they are too often trotted out as general excuses, I suspect. Somewhere, there is a quote from a Nobel economist saying that macro economics is about as useful as astrology. In fact it could even be that Pentax - or Nikon, or Canon - would have done just as well or better over the past decade if prices had been left for an astrologer to decide. It would certainly have provided good entertainment.
10-04-2016, 12:11 PM   #98
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Hoya was simply liquidating assets in the most expeditious fashion. DA and 645* lenses, lens blanks (apparently still significant) and development work in progress (K-01, Q, K-7, DA 560) were assets to be liquidated with no vision of the future health of the enterprise. Decisions were made opportunistically , absolutely the type of decision influenced by cyclical exchange rates rather than secular macroeconomic trends - particularly if you haven't cash on-hand to hedge.

* It can be argued 645D was greenlighted specifically as a vehicle to stimulate sales of 645 lenses held in inventory.


Last edited by monochrome; 10-04-2016 at 03:03 PM.
10-04-2016, 12:54 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
... Group #1 thinks the K1 is overpriced at any price that they can't afford.
Thanks for putting words in other people's mouths. As for myself, saying I can't/won't afford a K-1 and saying the K-1 is overpriced are not the same thing at all. I just would wish/hope that, as time passes, the price would eventually go down, and not up! As of late, Pentax pricing has been going up significantly. It looks like the K-3 II is also going up about $150 now, and lens (street) prices have also gone up significantly during the course of the summer. For example, the D-FA 100mm WR used to routinely sell for around $400-420, has now been sitting around $550 since July, with no sign of a return to its former pricing.

Of course, this is hardly bad news for people who use camera gear as status symbols...
10-04-2016, 01:01 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The Sony FE lenses are selling for the same price as they were 2 years ago. My Sony A7II is selling for the same price it was two years ago. Sigma lenses are selling for the same price. If the rise in the Yen is the reason for the price increase of the K-1 then why is it having the same effect on products from Sony and Sigma?
Not convincing. Sony price hike has happened already earlier.

Sony price increase already effective in some European countries | Photo Rumors

http://photorumors.com/2016/07/27/canon-and-sony-also-rumored-to-raise-prices-in-europe/

Sigma stated:

QuoteQuote:
The UK division of lens-maker Sigma has also indicated it will soon act likewise. All its products are made in Aizu, Japan.
"We build in a small buffer, which prevents the necessity of constantly changing our prices with every minor fluctuation of exchange rate, but the dramatic fall in the value of sterling as a result of [the] vote to leave the EU is far too great to be absorbed in this way," said Graham Armitage, general manager of Sigma Imaging UK.
Tech companies blame price rises on Brexit vote - BBC News

Can't be more explicitly saying that currency has its impact.
10-04-2016, 01:02 PM - 1 Like   #101
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Should the Fed raise interest rates soon, and should bond yields rise, foreign investors might well sell foreign bonds and buy US bonds, which might drive the dollar back up.

OTOH, if the next Congress and President agree on a more expansionist Fiscal policy (larger deficits), which appears likely, that could raise the specter of inflation which could drive the dollar down.

Which would make USD investments more attractive in foreign local currency terms, which would drive the dollar back up.

So be of good cheer, Pentaxians. There is an intersection somewhere between your liquidity and future Pentax prices
10-04-2016, 01:07 PM   #102
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Latest roundup... Amazon has it for $1,950, you can get it from Ritz fulfilled by Amazon for $1,800 w/64gb card and some junk (only 6 left! hurry up!), it's $1,900 from Ritz on eBay, Kenmore Camera has it for $1,800 on their site but none in stock and you need a $500 deposit, Kenmore has nothing on their eBay store, and of course Adorama, B&H, Buydig, etc are all $1,950.

I bit the bullet and bought a used LN- one from KEH on Monday for $1,600 plus a 2-year warranty for another $100. A good deal for me since I'm in NYS so all the usual suspects charge tax, so I'd actually be paying $2,100 for a new one now from most of the sellers. Hopefully the price jumps will help me as I sell a few lenses and my K-3 to help cover the cost.
10-04-2016, 01:08 PM   #103
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Looks like all the Amazon sellers have now also jumped up to $1949, too.

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10-04-2016, 01:11 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlennG Quote
I don't know what the right value is, and there may in fact be some exchange rate drivers, but I have to wonder if Ricoh basically decided they had a real winner here with good market strength and the unit was basically underpriced. I am not sure how that explains the price remaining low for amazon and other sellers - maybe existing stock selling first? Though some may be affected by this price change, it feels to be a good indicator for Ricoh in the short term and all of us over the longer haul.

Ricoh said in a Photokina interview that they are still filling orders and there is no inventory. Every K-1 they make is already sold.
10-04-2016, 01:25 PM   #105
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Body Only K-70 is still at $646

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