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10-04-2016, 07:31 PM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
Fine, but your use of the word overpriced makes it meaningless to anyone else. Standardization of terms allows for clearer communications. What does outrageous mean to you?
I went out of my way to explain what I meant and did so more than once in this thread. I generally reference the dictionary.

For instance:

QuoteQuote:
outrageous

[out-rey-juh s]
adjective
1. of the nature of or involving gross injury or wrong: an outrageous slander.

2. grossly offensive to the sense of right or decency: outrageous behavior; an outrageous remark.

3. passing reasonable bounds; intolerable or shocking: an outrageous price.


10-05-2016, 12:11 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by choong_dc Quote
Great, I'll wait for another 2 years when K1 is outdated and buy it from someone in this forum... I mean the K3 is still a mean machine (at least to me)!
my dirty plan too I might also wait for the sale next year in Europe (got my K3 ~500eur brand new because of that + cashback from Ricoh) and pull the trigger if the K1 < 1000$
10-05-2016, 01:16 AM - 1 Like   #123
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I am not an economist but from what I learn from buying Japanese stock here; if the yen strong especially at this level at this time of the year, around 100 JPY per 1 USD it will be a big problem when Japanese companies bring profit back home at the end of the year. They have to exchange earned foreign currency back to Yen because annual performance is judged in Yen. Investors will see if they earn more or less than the last physical year? if it meet their expectation? and that will also affect their stock price, etc. So it is also important for Japanese companies to have a weak Yen when they cook their annual report. If it go down to 120JPY / 1 USD will be heaven for them.
Since the Yen is very strong now, they might have to start adjust the oversea price to compensate and make sure the final number in Yen at the end of the year will not be too far off than market expectation or else they stock price will be negatively affected and so on. That can be translated to future development fund Ricoh willing to throw at Pentax too.


I can imagine that they have to buy parts and materials + transfer fund to make camera and lens long before the yen get to this level. Next year, next production, if the Yen stay strong when they buy part and raw material, then drop when they have to convert money back to Yen. We can guess that the costs will be lower and the year-end profit will be boosted by weaker Yen. Timing of strong and weak Yen is very important for every export based company here.


Besides that, my next theory is…Hey, people in japan has been paying like +700 USD more than you guys over there. It might be time for them to drop domestic price for upcoming domistic New Year sale and you know, you get to pay the higher price over there for us.
Ha ha, I am kidding, in-fact I have Absolute no idea why Japanese company sale Japanese product in japan @ a higher price and why price oversea moving up and price in Japan stay the same now.


QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Yes it does. That is why manufacturers based in countries with a strong currency move their plants to countries with weak currencies. You offset the effect of a strong currency. Ricoh buys many of the components for the K-1 from other countries, so as the Yen gets stronger Ricoh has more buying power. Labor to assemble the cameras becomes cheaper.

Sigma on the other hand is all made in Japan and even their components suppliers are based in Japan. Sigma can't offset the negative impact of a strong currency on its products. When the Yen gets stronger that means all of the components that go into their lenses become more expensive. When Ricoh was running big sales every month people were claiming it was due to the weak Yen, but now prices are rising they claim its due to a strong Yen. Sigma's prices have remained constant through all of the BS and they are also a Japanese company. Sigma is more sensitive to changes in the Yen than Ricoh.

---------- Post added 10-03-16 at 09:46 PM ----------



Yes. Thank you.

Last edited by pakinjapan; 10-05-2016 at 01:45 AM.
10-05-2016, 04:25 PM   #124
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This might be a good time to look at the weekly deal roundup,
which Adam summarized as
QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
This week, we are monitoring a US price increase for the Pentax K-1. The MSRP has been increased from $1799 to $1949. The camera is still available for $1799 on Amazon:

Pricing on lenses and other cameras remains stable.
Sure looks more like a supply-and-demand adjustment than a currency adjustment to me.

Note: people here seem to assume that prices always come down. I'm guessing that is a simplification. Under normal conditions, Pentax may start with a slightly higher price, making those who just can't wait pay for it, but that is not carved in stone.

10-05-2016, 04:34 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Sure looks more like a supply-and-demand adjustment than a currency adjustment to me.
The problem with the currency theory is that if it were currency we would also be seeing a price increase on the 645z and K-3II. Currency fluctuations don't just effect one specific model of camera. There have been many, many currency fluctuations both during and after the recession and I don't remember seeing the K-7/K-5/K-3 go up in price 6 months after being announced. Maybe someone can show some price history of how the rise and fall of the Yen has a history of effecting Pentax camera prices.

---------- Post added 10-05-16 at 06:44 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pakinjapan Quote
Hey, people in japan has been paying like +700 USD more than you guys over there.
There has always been more demand for Pentax cameras in Japan. Where you have more demand you have higher prices.

QuoteOriginally posted by pakinjapan Quote
if the yen strong especially at this level at this time of the year, around 100 JPY per 1 USD it will be a big problem when Japanese companies bring profit back home at the end of the year.
They Dollar to Yen exchange rate is around 1:103. The 15 year average is 1:104. Then Yen was pushed down to an artificially low level and is simply returning to the normal value. One year ago the ratio was 1:120. The current Yen is not that strong. We didn't see K-3II prices rising when the Yen was 120. Why do people think we would see the K-1 would rise because of 103?

The current price increase of the K-1 is due to high demand and low supply.
10-05-2016, 05:02 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The problem with the currency theory is that if it were currency we would also be seeing a price increase on the 645z and K-3II. Currency fluctuations don't just effect one specific model of camera. There have been many, many currency fluctuations both during and after the recession and I don't remember seeing the K-7/K-5/K-3 go up in price 6 months after being announced. Maybe someone can show some price history of how the rise and fall of the Yen has a history of effecting Pentax camera prices.*
645Z and K3II are not sold out of production through December. There is existing stock of both, likely onshore.

Every K-1 currently produced is already sold at the contract price - they can't even build an inventory. To meet the contract price every purchase of K-1 must be done with Yen purchased today.

Of course, Ricoh might be acting purely as a predatory corporation and taking advantage of the opportunity to fleece it's loyal customers, for whom they built the camera. Doesn't seem likely, but who k ows - Ricoh is a corporation after all, and corporations are by definition evil, rent-seeking, profit chasing blights on consumers..

Further, the demand theory doesn't explain Nikon, Canon and Fuji price hikes.

* see my ten year Yen/Dollar chart post above for some suggestions, but you can't infer anything since Ricoh isn't Hoya.

Last edited by monochrome; 10-05-2016 at 05:10 PM.
10-05-2016, 05:11 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Well Nikon is supposedly in an impending doom state as has been predicted for at least a decade now.. I think Canon is rather healthy though, but they seem to be diversifying their platform more (just bought a medical equipment unit from Toshiba a few months ago) probably due to the shrinking camera market in general.

At the very least, with Nikon, you have a muchhh larger selection of modern lenses. I was hoping to buy the K-3II and use it for a couple of years while K-1 and FF lens prices lower a bit. But I might just hold on to the K-5II I currently use and see what 2017 presents since prices are currently increasing as opposed to their normal decrease. Prices are so volatile that I'm not going to make plans beyond that.

I see some lens prices are high now too.. DA* 16-50mm and DA* 50-135mm each for 1046 USD, They were going for 683 and 732 respectively back in February. We're just in a sellers market right now.. like the tide, will have to wait for it to go down.
It could be my imagination, but it seems like even K and M series lenses (at least some) are getting higher on the forum and elsewhere too.
10-05-2016, 05:22 PM   #128
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Who said Ricoh raised prices? Is Ricoh the UK distributor? Dealers in the USA have Minimum Advertised Pricing, but nothing keeps B&H from selling the K-1 for $2,000 if it decides to. There is no maximum price than dealers are limited to.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Every K-1 currently produced is already sold at the contract price - they can't even build an inventory
Yes, which demand is higher than supply. Prices have a tendency to rise when supply is limited.

10-05-2016, 05:40 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by mwilky55 Quote
It could be my imagination, but it seems like even K and M series lenses (at least some) are getting higher on the forum and elsewhere too.
Well from the few lenses I've watched, it appears the rebate disappeared and thus they went back to MSRP. Same thing with the K-3 II. It was at 850 but there was a 150 dollar instant rebate.. they took the rebate away. That made it look like a price increase on those to me. But they just removed the discounts.

I'm really interested in seeing how they price for Black Friday. Last year was somewhat lackluster.. especially for camera bodies.

It is rather amazing that BF is only a month and a half away.. year is flying by!
10-05-2016, 06:13 PM - 1 Like   #130
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purchased K-1

I purchased my K-1 today, brand new for $1675.99, shipped out today UPS...free shipping. Saw the k-1 on their web page, saw a link to ask for their best price and they e-mailed their best price. By the way, full US warranty. DistrictCamera.com
10-05-2016, 06:44 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by fnflying Quote
I purchased my K-1 today, brand new for $1675.99, shipped out today UPS...free shipping. Saw the k-1 on their web page, saw a link to ask for their best price and they e-mailed their best price. By the way, full US warranty. DistrictCamera.com
How do you know they are an authorized dealer?
10-05-2016, 06:59 PM   #132
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Don't worry. The Japanese have to pay more even after the recent K-1 price hike in the US. The lowest price on a price competitive site is now 222,412 yen or $2160, which is 10% more than the hiked price. It looks like all Japanese makers set the price based on the dollar.

Look at Canon's 5D mark IV. Americans can buy it for $3500, which is the same with the initial price of the 5D mark III. On the other hand, Japanese have to pay 420,000 yen for the 5D mark IV compared with 5D mark III's 322,000, which is 30% less.

The reason is yen depreciation till last year. I guess makers set prices fixed last year when the yen significantly depreciated against the dollar. Some Japanese have started to buy overseas for cheaper products.
10-05-2016, 07:45 PM - 1 Like   #133
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districtcamera is "taking orders" on the K-1, none in stock... so maybe fnflying got the last one.
10-05-2016, 08:35 PM   #134
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district camera is a USA authorized dealer of everything they sell
10-05-2016, 09:02 PM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Maybe someone can show some price history of how the rise and fall of the Yen has a history of effecting Pentax camera prices.
Value of Yen will only affect Japanese product’s price when it move up and down during company moves money in and out of Yen.
So, I think most likely we will have to know when the company transfers their fund in and out of Yen, then compare it to the value of Yen at that time. I pretty sure it will match at the end of its production cycle. not one product's price but the sum of all product. it is more like a number game when they focus on over all out looking.


QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The problem with the currency theory is that if it were currency we would also be seeing a price increase on the 645z and K-3II. Currency fluctuations don't just effect one specific model of camera. There have been many, many currency fluctuations both during and after the recession and I don't remember seeing the K-7/K-5/K-3 go up in price 6 months after being announced.

I think you are a kind of answer that already. K-1 seem to be in a higher demand, so the company (punish us by) makes the price higher and they know it will sale anyway because it is still lower than similar camera from competitor.


I can see stock price for all export related company moving down and everyone know it is the Yen. It is bad to see Yen doesn’t show sign of weakening when most companies have to move money back to Yen (in the next few month). And companies doing everything they can to compensate the loose. One way is to increases products price. I guess Pentax K1 in the US. Is a victim of this because it is the easiest to sale now.
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