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12-28-2016, 07:42 AM   #406
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Some mirrorless are super fast. But Pentax is not known for speed even in DSLRs. And the K-01 is very slow. I don't expect a speed monster from Pentax, but if they make one - wonderful!
I decided to wait a little while - and put my decision, to sell everything from Pentax on waiting... Spring is close, and if they announced something good - it will be maybe a teaser to keep everything. .. But, right now, I'm trully impressed with m43 capabilities - yet, this system is still behind in DR, and overall pixels, but it offers a lot on the other side.
The benefits are not so always on the side of DR and MP

It's extremelly good system, and Pentax - oh, boy, has nothing in these segment, except old K-01...

12-28-2016, 07:56 AM   #407
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QuoteOriginally posted by panonski Quote
you cannot see the difference because you maybe are not proper framing shooter, and you cannot see it.
Go back to film era, and made a picture without resizing, or croping.
...
You know what is most used aspect ratio in Rembrandt works ?
...
4:3. 3:2 was never my cup of tea, you can call it personal taste
I shot a lot of film Panoski and frequently you cropped in the darkroom (every time you changed paper size you were doing some minor crop or another, if you shot medium format you almost always cropped to suit the print requirement..... to each his own but I'm not a believer that SOOC is even a good thing, i always did post in the darkroom, and now i always do a fair bit of post in lightroom/photoshop. I've tried m 4/3 Oly before i made the switch to Fuji. I chose fuji for a combination of the lenses and the feel when shooting, same reason i stayed with pentax for decades. I would rather crop from apsc than m4/3 though because the sensor noise is better so it can handle the crop better (I'd rather shoot medium format and the new fuji is calling but i need to save for a good while for that. the 645d/z call for the same reason

---------- Post added 28th Dec 2016 at 09:57 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Float Quote
just came back to this thread after not reading it since page 11.

What a shit show. Get it together, people.

Is it bad if I secretly want a Pentax Espio Mini/ UC-1 with a compact sensor?
ha I've mostly been off the forum for a few years randomly dropping back, this could easily be a pre K-01 thread for instance hahaha. some things never change

---------- Post added 28th Dec 2016 at 10:03 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
DA40 Limited is 89g, saving 36g vs. the 35/2.4 or 126g vs. the 35/2.8 Limited. I don't have the 21, but a K-S1/21/40/70 travel kit sure does look attractive.

Close enough to the classic 28/55/105 from film days.
this is eerily familiar, I'm sure i've seen this in conjunction with K-01 , for the many who haven't made a mirroless jump it likely won't change how much you carry at all. i used to go on vacation with a couple of pentax bodies and a bag full of primes, ....last vacation i had 3 fuji bodies (4 if you count my wife's) and a bag full of primes and a flash..... on any given day though i generally would decide on 1 body and a couple of lenses (bigger primes with the XT1, smaller primes with the Xpro, and the ones without hotspots with the Infrared XE1 - if i took it out I always had the xpro with 18/27)
01-01-2017, 10:56 AM   #408
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QuoteOriginally posted by grahame Quote
I hope it is an MLC, with a good EVF. I really love the enlarged MF assistant on Sony A7's EVF. I installed all kinds of focusing screens on K DSLRs, but none could match the speed and accuracy of EVF. And I am so tired of AF testing/adjusting...
+1, I also hope for the same.
01-03-2017, 09:00 PM - 1 Like   #409
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This thread has grown since I last visited it, and I haven't read all the intervening posts, so please forgive me if someone has already raised similar points. Am I the only one who would see no problem in a mirrorless camera with a similar size and form to current DSLRs, particularly the Pentax K-3, which I find a very agreeable size and heft? This would make retaining the K mount a no-brainer. I haven't held a Fuji XT-2, but from looking at one in a camera store window, it doesn't seem much smaller than a K-3, apart from the thickness of the body, and one needs to add the battery grip to get a fully functioning camera it seems to me, which greatly adds to its size. I bought the Olympus M1 and M5 a couple of years ago, and although they were reasonably capable cameras, I hated them for their small size and fiddly buttons. I don't have large hands, so that has nothing to do with it. Perhaps a DSLR-type mirrorless would be a hard marketing sell, but I would love to see one.

01-03-2017, 10:23 PM - 2 Likes   #410
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You are not alone. Leica made a huge mirror less; Olympus' latest model also has a SLR style grip.
As long as the sensor is still flate, and each pixel is still well type, the best optical design is still having a reasonable register distance to make light reachs sensor vertically. Cutting thinkness on camera and adding it back to lens is not a very good idea.
01-04-2017, 04:12 AM - 2 Likes   #411
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
This thread has grown since I last visited it, and I haven't read all the intervening posts, so please forgive me if someone has already raised similar points. Am I the only one who would see no problem in a mirrorless camera with a similar size and form to current DSLRs, particularly the Pentax K-3, which I find a very agreeable size and heft? This would make retaining the K mount a no-brainer. I haven't held a Fuji XT-2, but from looking at one in a camera store window, it doesn't seem much smaller than a K-3, apart from the thickness of the body, and one needs to add the battery grip to get a fully functioning camera it seems to me, which greatly adds to its size. I bought the Olympus M1 and M5 a couple of years ago, and although they were reasonably capable cameras, I hated them for their small size and fiddly buttons. I don't have large hands, so that has nothing to do with it. Perhaps a DSLR-type mirrorless would be a hard marketing sell, but I would love to see one.
+1

There is some temporary degeneration at work I think. The forms of current DSLRs with good grips have not evolved over time from the poorly designed cigarette boxes of old times for no reason.

The grip of a K-3/K-1 is just perfect for anyone who wants to hold a camera longer ("enthusiast") with comfort.
And part of the reason is that it is about 7 cm deep.
And that is deeper than the FF body between mount and display.
So whatever space you can save on a mount does reduce the overall z-axis camera dimension by ZERO if you do not want to tolerate a sub-par crippled grip such as you have to on pretty much all modern mirrorless cameras.
Olympus, Sony and Fuji have poor and sub-par designs there. Only Panasonic and Samsung (when they were in the game) had learned that lesson.

I do predict that those makers slowly over time revert the degeneration and build DSLR style/size bodies again for the enthusiasts. Look how Sony improved the size to larger from a7 to a7r2.Compare camera dimensions side by side

And then compare the depth of a mFT camera versus an APSC DSL: Compare camera dimensions side by side. No differences left.

This also is one of the reasons, why so few enthusiasts ever have gone fully mirrorless, but always keep a second "real" system. And it is limiting their growth to stagnation.

If you are a "casual" shooter = upgrader from a smartphone with only a kit lens or two and take less than 500 images in a year obviously ergonomics requirements are irrelevant and you can go for any exterior design that looks good on your bookshelf. Since Fuji seems to cater mostly for the style geeks and retro grandpas with a wish for photo toys and not for any serious photographers, they are most likely to continue to focus on outer looks with priority over usefulness. Actually rather surprising you can not buy Fujis in a bling-bling swarovski edition.
01-04-2017, 04:49 AM   #412
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
+1

There is some temporary degeneration at work I think. The forms of current DSLRs with good grips have not evolved over time from the poorly designed cigarette boxes of old times for no reason.

The grip of a K-3/K-1 is just perfect for anyone who wants to hold a camera longer ("enthusiast") with comfort.
And part of the reason is that it is about 7 cm deep.
And that is deeper than the FF body between mount and display.
So whatever space you can save on a mount does reduce the overall z-axis camera dimension by ZERO if you do not want to tolerate a sub-par crippled grip such as you have to on pretty much all modern mirrorless cameras.
Olympus, Sony and Fuji have poor and sub-par designs there. Only Panasonic and Samsung (when they were in the game) had learned that lesson.

I do predict that those makers slowly over time revert the degeneration and build DSLR style/size bodies again for the enthusiasts. Look how Sony improved the size to larger from a7 to a7r2.Compare camera dimensions side by side

And then compare the depth of a mFT camera versus an APSC DSL: Compare camera dimensions side by side. No differences left.

This also is one of the reasons, why so few enthusiasts ever have gone fully mirrorless, but always keep a second "real" system. And it is limiting their growth to stagnation.

If you are a "casual" shooter = upgrader from a smartphone with only a kit lens or two and take less than 500 images in a year obviously ergonomics requirements are irrelevant and you can go for any exterior design that looks good on your bookshelf. Since Fuji seems to cater mostly for the style geeks and retro grandpas with a wish for photo toys and not for any serious photographers, they are most likely to continue to focus on outer looks with priority over usefulness. Actually rather surprising you can not buy Fujis in a bling-bling swarovski edition.


Disagree with pretty much all of this, I have 4 Fuji mirrorless bodies and have shot with the Oly and a couple of Sony . I hate the Sony bodies for the most part they really did take it too far with the narrow body. Oly with the excellent 45 and a battery grip is still much more compact and light. I almost went that route when I changed. Fuji I have all three body types (the ex, the xt1 and the xpro) the xt1 is most dslr like, and in fact I did add a hand grip to it. Still even with the grip and the 23 1.4 it's more compact and lighter than other APC DSLR offerings with a similar fast 23 attached . And it has a huge vf so if I am shooting my lenses it's much easier to focus them. Last the xpro provides the closest thing to a rf experience without spending Leica bucks. With the 18 and 35 it's a very compact walk around kit that is a joy to shoot. I'd didn't keep any dslr when I changed in part because aside from 1 they were all stolen in a break in and it was a good time to make the switch. If it had happened more recently I would have been torn between building a k1 system with an apsc second body and getting the xpro 2 and an xt as a second body. I think making a mirrorless that doesn't address the market reality that mirrorless users want something smaller (remember most mirrorless customers aren't enthusiasts like many here are. ....and it is possible to build systems suiting both. Fuji I think has a balanced system for enthusiasts and has the smaller units w/out vf for the entry level (I could never shoot anything without a vf personally) Sony gets it more right with the full frame a7 series I think they just need to do a better job on lens development . And the apsc series sells right in to the market for mirrorless the people who never used dslr or didn't like it anyway. The step up from a cell phone crowd. And the I need to adapt every lens on the planet crowd so I will put up with a lot of other issues to do it lol) dslr will not go away at least short term, but for Pentax to build a mirrorless that is native k mount will be a big mistake , it need not be Olympus size but it needs to be a shorter registration distance. Bundling it with a k adapter that would allow complete use of all k mount lenses (maybe even getting rid of the crippling of the MF mounts) would be the way. It will leave all the legacy glass viable but allow a new line of shorter registration lenses and allow the adapting of most other lenses . Just offer at least 1 enthusiast variant with a big fast evf like the one on the xt1/2 it's a joy in many ways (maybe not for the sports and bif crowd but then that is where dslr comes in )
01-04-2017, 05:01 AM   #413
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I thought this was about a rumour, not about personal preferanses?

01-04-2017, 05:07 AM - 1 Like   #414
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I thought this was about a rumour, not about personal preferanses?
and you have been on this forum for how long?
01-04-2017, 05:08 AM   #415
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ZOELLNER every time ere is a rumour people posit on what should be in the rumoured camera. My guess is Ricoh will not stick with k mount for mirrorless. They will build a new system that targets the mirrorless market not the legacy group they already service well with the dslr line. And if they are serious about growing share it will focus on the more entry mid mirrorless users initially, leaving enthusiasts and pros with the dslr line. I get tempted to buy a dslr system when looking at the k1 but I am quite happy with the Fuji system and would rather buy more glass, it's more useful and update to the xpro2 at some point

---------- Post added 4th Jan 2017 at 07:10 ----------

As for the original rumour, a compact new mount that draws design elements from legacy bodies like the k1000 would be no different than the on series or the Fuji xt (which echoes the fuji film bodies of the 70s

---------- Post added 4th Jan 2017 at 07:11 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
and you have been on this forum for how long?


Ha exactly
01-04-2017, 05:15 AM   #416
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It's a Godwin thing.
01-04-2017, 06:29 AM   #417
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
ZOELLNER every time ere is a rumour people posit on what should be in the rumoured camera. My guess is Ricoh will not stick with k mount for mirrorless. They will build a new system that targets the mirrorless market not the legacy group they already service well with the dslr line. And if they are serious about growing share it will focus on the more entry mid mirrorless users initially, leaving enthusiasts and pros with the dslr line.
Good point. This looks to be what Canon are doing with the mirrorless M series relative to their DSLRs. And I have long thought that Canon, of all possible competitors, was the outfit Ricoh most closely shadows. However, an unknown is whether Ricoh have the resources to run a new mirrorless line side by side with their existing DSLR lines. OTOH, if they "retire" the Q line then that may free up some resources for them. However, the DSLR/mirrorless distinction is probably a temporary one and self-serving from Canon's point of view. Eventually the two will blend into one. How many enthusiasts would buy a mirrorless model if they knew it had been deliberately held back and "de-featured" in some way in order to protect a line of DSLRs in which they had no interest? No easy answers around here ...

Last edited by mecrox; 01-04-2017 at 07:12 AM.
01-04-2017, 06:43 AM   #418
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New mount would be wrong - and I tell you why. Firts of all - K Mount very well serve APSC and FF size . Fuji have a mirrorless in APSC size, and it's very well accepted among users all over the world.
Smaller micro four third is little small to satisfie FF needs, of DR or small DOF.

Fuji's apsc seems to be just right size.
Latest Ricoh GR have a APSC size too.


New smaller size would be just an empty hit - pointless in every way - except size.

And when you go for it, you lose cover of apsc - so less size in lens, also mean less size in sensor.

Would smaller sensor versus well established Fuji, and Olympus make any impact ? Don't think so.

Would Pentax go to microfour standard in mirrorless ? This could be win win, but then again - no, I don't think it's gone happened.

Pentax have to ( and I believe they would ) find solution in already existing equipment.

..
Further, everybody is talk how Pentax have small lens, compared with other manufacturers - and this is already an advantage to go smaller without hard times, and without extra effort, and without new mounts etc...

They will certainly go to find their way in mirrorless story - in a most practic way, and this way is not new mount
01-04-2017, 07:05 AM - 2 Likes   #419
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My money's on mirrorless medium format before mirrorless APS-C or mirrorless FF. Less competition in mirrorless medium format, more pr, higher margins.
01-04-2017, 07:22 AM   #420
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
My money's on mirrorless medium format before mirrorless APS-C or mirrorless FF. Less competition in mirrorless medium format, more pr, higher margins.
this is a good point but the market for such is very small.

I beleive in small(er) sensors because every year they show how capable they are - look at Sigma sensors. same ( small ) size, but quality is outstanding. They can hold patent 20 years, and they have it for ten or more right now.

Sony patented their own version of Sigma's 3 layer sensor - so far I know about this. So this means - everybody will sooner or later came back to microfourthird size - who will cares about medium and FF - except few proffesionals - who would buy it in a name of prestige, just for showing up in a front of big clients.

Last edited by panonski; 01-04-2017 at 07:33 AM.
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