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01-04-2017, 07:35 AM   #421
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
My money's on mirrorless medium format before mirrorless APS-C or mirrorless FF. Less competition in mirrorless medium format, more pr, higher margins.


Good point and with the new Fuji coming in at what is rumoured to be a lower price with the base lens than the 645z and fully WR it make sense they have a response pending. Medium format also has much faster payback thanks to the margins. I don't think the mirrorless hassleblad was as big a threat, Fuji already is very good at implementing mirrorless and they are also very good at lens development and lens quality (and have made medium format lenses for themselves and others for decades )

01-04-2017, 07:50 AM   #422
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It was Mr. Kitazawa - as the Head of Business Development IIRC - who said that from a technical point of view, a mirrorless medium format makes sense - as the mirror vibrations are more powerful. Also, he said that "APS-C should be the utmost size for mirrorless segment" - that was in October 2012.
The problem with a 645milc is restarting their lens line from scratch.

Mirrorless K-mount - I'm repeating myself - makes no sense as a long term strategy. It means not having ever compact cameras, nor compact&reasonably fast wide angle lenses.
01-04-2017, 08:15 AM   #423
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
My money's on mirrorless medium format before mirrorless APS-C or mirrorless FF. Less competition in mirrorless medium format, more pr, higher margins.
This.^^

The rumor source for this got spanked.
01-04-2017, 10:22 AM   #424
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
This.^^

The rumor source for this got spanked.
So the Pentax inventory of existing 645 lenses is liquidated? I thought you said selling this inventory was one of the factors which dictated how Pentax approached medium format. Anyway, if Fuji come into the market strongly with their new camera then I doubt Pentax can afford to wait all that long, inventory or no. Once lost to a rival, I would guess that MF users are very hard to get back again and there are only a few to begin with.

01-04-2017, 10:24 AM   #425
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The problem with mirrorless medium format is price. Not very many enthusiasts will be able to afford a MF digital -- mirrorless or otherwise. I think Pentax will be aiming for a wider user base, much like Sony did with its NEX series, with the eventual introduction of an FF model, as in their A7 series.

I would prefer it if Pentax were to come out with an FF model at the start, since this is where most folks will be looking as soon as Pentax introduces its line of mirrorless models.

As for camera shape, I find myself disagreeing with folks here. The only mirrorless I've used -- and the only one I own -- is a Sony NEX 7. The 7's battery compartment gives the user a nicely sized grip for the right hand. I have largish hands and I find the grip comfortable. I also bought an extension frame for this camera. I found it on eBay. It provides about 1cm of additional depth, which adds to the hand-holding comfort, plus it adds to the camera mount's stability. Looks like this:



Here's a link to an eBay listing for one:

Vertical Quick Release Plate L-Bracket Hand Grip Holder For Sony NEX7 Camera?US? | eBay

The A7 series has a similar sized grip, as I recall, so it should provide similar comfort. The A7 Sonys are already approaching the size of a DSLR, so I don't see much point in intentionally bulking up a mirorless camera. To me, one of the most important aspects of a mirrorless is its narrow registration distance, which gives the camera incredible flexibility with respect to legacy lenses, and all it requires to use current DSLR lenses is a simple adapter. So, this is a mirrorless feature that must be included in the new line, IMO.

Last edited by cooltouch; 01-04-2017 at 10:32 AM.
01-04-2017, 10:30 AM   #426
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QuoteOriginally posted by cooltouch Quote
The problem with mirrorless medium format is price. Not very many enthusiasts will be able to afford a MF digital -- mirrorless or otherwise. I think Pentax will be aiming for a wider user base, much like Sony did with its NEX series, with the eventual introduction of an FF model, as in their A7 series.
Sony NEX, you say... Sony introduced their first NEX cameras in 2010 - APS-C format. Their first FF MILC was 3 years later, in 2013.
Ricoh Imaging starting with a FF MILC doesn't sound plausible.
01-04-2017, 10:37 AM   #427
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Yes, but my point was -- and is -- as soon as Sony introduced their NEX line, most folks I know of -- me included -- began to wonder and speculate as to when Sony would introduce a FF mirrorless. By the time it was finally released, there was a huge, pent-up demand for it. And now, look at Sony's mirrorless line. Its APS-C models are almost forgotten also-rans. So all I'm saying is that, if Pentax were smart, they'd go ahead and introduce it at the start -- along with APS-C models, of course. But then perhaps a multiple model release is too much to expect?
01-04-2017, 10:52 AM   #428
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I see 3 problems with that:
- Ricoh Imaging is not Sony, they just don't flood the market with cameras. Rather, they try to use efficiently their limited resources. They won't outdo Sony at this game.
- Sony NEX was launched when the camera market still had an explosive growth. The Sony A7 was planned and developed when camera makers were expecting the explosive growth to continue; yet there was a 3 year delay.
- unlike Sony, Ricoh Imaging won't be the first; they would enter a market which already have 6 such cameras.
So yes, it is too much to expect.

P.S. For all their efforts, Sony can't get anywhere near Canon and Nikon.

01-04-2017, 11:40 AM   #429
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
So the Pentax inventory of existing 645 lenses is liquidated? I thought you said selling this inventory was one of the factors which dictated how Pentax approached medium format. Anyway, if Fuji come into the market strongly with their new camera then I doubt Pentax can afford to wait all that long, inventory or no. Once lost to a rival, I would guess that MF users are very hard to get back again and there are only a few to begin with.
I did not relate MFMILC to my supposition that FA645 lens inventory was part of the business case for 645D. I merely said a user who recently postulated a very-large-sensor mirrorless Pentax was reportedly disciplined by Ricoh Imaging Japan for so postulating.
01-06-2017, 01:30 AM   #430
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I would imagine Ricoh coming up with a mirrorless camera like the GXR and would probably be using Leica mount again but this time either 24M pixel APC or FF. If they do release one, it should have a AF module for K mount lenses.
01-10-2017, 02:59 PM   #431
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mirrorless?

The only thing I hate about mirrorless camera so far is..

#1 Battery life is terrible.. need to buy alot of it, third party dont last long.
#2 AF is bad, aside from the new olympus, all the Mirrorless AF isnt as accurate as DSLR. Maybe Pentax can just slowly blend in?..
#3 buying new lens for it! They gotta make native mirrorless mounts! Not make us buy new lens for it! WTh..
#4 Cost alot! Take out the mirror, and still cost more with the mirror. Im confuse! ( general)
#5 EVF... thats all I want to say... EVF...
01-10-2017, 07:46 PM - 1 Like   #432
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QuoteOriginally posted by thesia26 Quote
#2 AF is bad, aside from the new olympus, all the Mirrorless AF isnt as accurate as DSLR. Maybe Pentax can just slowly blend in?..
Where do you get this from?? CDAF used by MILC has no front/back focus issues - every MILC I've heard about nails focus.
01-10-2017, 07:54 PM   #433
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Where do you get this from?? CDAF used by MILC has no front/back focus issues - every MILC I've heard about nails focus.


Agree I own 4 Fuji bodies and they all focus very well the latest af update is very good (better than any of the dslr bodies I owned actually)
01-11-2017, 06:52 AM   #434
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Af is great if you are shooting still subjects or slow moving targets.

fast moving subject nope. fuji af is fine but follow a bird and call it a night. It wont do it as well as your dslr and that is a known fact .

Ill give it credit, its getting close as olympus emi mkii started the conversation. Anything before Olympus emi mkii isnt good AF for fast moving object. However at that point you are paying 2k for it .
01-11-2017, 07:23 AM   #435
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QuoteOriginally posted by thesia26 Quote
Af is great if you are shooting still subjects or slow moving targets.

fast moving subject nope. fuji af is fine but follow a bird and call it a night. It wont do it as well as your dslr and that is a known fact .

Ill give it credit, its getting close as olympus emi mkii started the conversation. Anything before Olympus emi mkii isnt good AF for fast moving object. However at that point you are paying 2k for it .
Well since I don't shoot with long lenses or BIF and Sports it's never come up, but most DSLR do not do well with that either unless you are at the high end . Meanwhile the XT2 and Xpro2 had another leap forward in aF and are more than capable.
I have shot a lot of Live music in crap light and had no issue nailing focus consistently even at f1.2 , sure I've got missed shots (as does anyone using any system)
the 100-400 will most defintiely compete on iq with any competing canikon lens (since they are really where you would look for a BIF rig) the issue is in tracking refresh rate, it's a lot better now, still not as good as the best pro dslr rigs (though likely will compete with most enthusiast and down offerings)
If OTOH you could care less about BIF and similar challennges (and that would encompass a large number of shooters) then mirrorless has many benefits.

---------- Post added 11th Jan 2017 at 09:45 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by thesia26 Quote
The only thing I hate about mirrorless camera so far is..

#1 Battery life is terrible.. need to buy alot of it, third party dont last long.
#2 AF is bad, aside from the new olympus, all the Mirrorless AF isnt as accurate as DSLR. Maybe Pentax can just slowly blend in?..
#3 buying new lens for it! They gotta make native mirrorless mounts! Not make us buy new lens for it! WTh..
#4 Cost alot! Take out the mirror, and still cost more with the mirror. Im confuse! ( general)
#5 EVF... thats all I want to say... EVF...
1# - that has been changing but since aftermarket batteries are inexpensive it's not a ig issue to throw a couple in your bag, I've never used more than two in a day but usually carry two spares
2# - this has been addressed already AF is not Bad, it;'s not at BIF levels but that is moot for many. I will point out AF is not always as speedy as some dslr rigs but it has no BF/FF issues and is very accurate , just as important as speed most times
3# this is about a possible pentax, ideally they launch a new mount with a Kaf adaptor because the new mount allows them to build optimal product for the system and eliminate limitations imposed by older systems. a K mount mirroless is not likely (K-01 was a failed experiment, Q did well but now the sensor size is an issue and the small compact marketit was part of is just about done
4# - taking out the mirror doesn't mean it will be cheaper the XPro setup I'm pretty certain is an expensive alternative to make (it is pretty amazing to shoot with) and a large bright high pixel count fast refresh OLED like in the XT2 is not going to be cheap to implement either , it has it's benefits (and limitations) certainly a top notch EVF is fantastic for shooting manual focus and for shooting video (where manual focus is the standard practice)
5# what about it, EVF has huge benefits if it is a good one and there are some very good ones now. I still prefer the Xpro setup where i can shoot with or without. but the XT vf is very good.

all that said I have an obvious bias having left DSLR two + years back. I would consider a FF dslr setup but to be realistic if i was going to go up to that weight i would rather look at a 645d/z dor landscapes etc or wait and assess the Fuji Mirrorless MF because it may well serve that purpose equally well . I'll never really be a BIF or Sports shooter so those systems aren't for me. and that is of course my point there are many different feilds in photography and many different shooting styles. for an increasing number of us mirrorless actually is a better system for how we work (lots of wedding guys are now shooting Fuji - and Sony if it would get the lens act together would draw a large number in that fieild the A7 series are very capable cameras - a good mirrorless MF will appeal to that crowd as well)

I will be very interested to see what the Pentax offering will be but since i have made the jump already it will have to be something very special to draw me (medium format ro perhaps a FF based around the LX with an uncrippled mound but all the mod cons (Like the XT mimics the best of the old Fuji film bodies)
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