[Tony Belding]

I believe people seriously over-state this issue. Several months ago, on a holiday trip when I knew I'd be taking a number of pictures, I disciplined myself to use only a particular M42 lens the entire day. (*) I don't use paper-thin DOF, which helps, but the main reason everything was in focus was that the focus confirmation on my K-30 is just as reliable as the AF is. If the camera can AF, I can MF.

Well, you have your experience, and I have mine. I tried doing exactly the same thing with my Pentax K-S2, and I was unhappy with the results.

[JPT]

I don't think the fact of whether a camera is mirrorless or DSLR in it's underlying technology is as important as what features it brings in what package and at what price. So if Ricoh takes a marketing approach, they will look at how well the current APS-C models are selling, why people buy them, and most importantly why the people who buy other brands don't go for Pentax. I think the big reasons are weight, focusing performance and focusing noise with the kit zooms.

Unfortunately, I don't think Pentax's low end DSLRs sell very well these days. I'm looking at Japan, because it's what I know, and it seems to be the most important market for Pentax. When I look at online availability for the 600-700g bunch (K-30/K-50/K-S2/K-70), you can still get any kit of these cameras new, and the older ones are discounted just as much as the K-01 ever was. In contrast, the K-01 and K-S1 were also discounted, but at least they sold out - most shops don't have the K-S1 any more. I can tell this by looking at the number of sellers that still have availability on the price comparison website kakaku.com and from looking in the B&M stores. It's also notable that K-70 is being produced at 5,000 a month compared to the K-1's 7,000. That seems the wrong way round, and leads me to believe that Ricoh sees it as having more of an enthusiast appeal, and missing our on the consumer market.

Pentax and Ricoh have been quite adventurous in experimenting with design to make low end DSLRs more appealing to the mass market. They started with the colours, then hundreds of custom colours, then the mirrorless K-01, then the styling of the K-30, then the more conventional K-50, then to pop styling with the K-S1 and the K-S2, and finally coming back to a more conventional look with the K-70. I find it completely believable that they would now try a retro model - it's practically the only thing the haven't tried, and other brands have had some success with it. If the way to get closest to a K-1000 design with a digital body is the make it mirrorless, then they may do it that way.

[grahame]

Pentax and Ricoh have been quite adventurous in experimenting with design to make low end DSLRs more appealing to the mass market.

For most of us here, a camera (almost) has to have a view finder, optical or electronic;
But for many new users started photography from smartphone and were shopping their 1st DSLR, viewfinder is not very useful. It actually just adds size and weight and price. I have seen so many users almost never put the camera close to their face, and LV is the only way they use the cameras, even the cameras in their hands were 5DII or D800. Yes, a heavy and expensive PS or MILC camera. So if pentax can make a good looking MILC, APS sensor, good video, small size, low price, I believe it can attract more young users than a low end DSLR can.
Members in Pentaxforums count only small portion in total Pentax users. many regular users might have never bothered searching more information about how to use a camera. For them, a K-S1 without a mirror and pentaprism is a better choice than KS2, although 99% members here will prefer KS2 over KS1.
Pentax needs two MILC lines, one with EVF and one without. The first one should look more like K1000 or Super A, and the later one should more like K01 or KS1 without pentaprism and mirror.

[6BQ5]

I'm a bit late to this thread ... but ...

I saw a comment from "kenspo" on that pentaxrumors.com site. It reads, "New mount, short register, K adapter for compatibility: there will be a nice little surprise in 2017 The future is bright, Ricoh are in for the long perspective."

Did he just throw that in there because he thinks we don't know he has an inside track to Ricoh and he may be thinking that nobody would believe him anyways? Heh! Well, I'm going to start saving up for Xmas 2017 now.

[RobA_Oz]

... where big money is risked and shareholders are chomping at the bit for big returns, you know these companies have to appeal to the largest number of people possible.

Capital tends to be more patient in Japanese-owned companies, and hence the difference between companies like Ricoh and the Western equivalents, where capital is impatient, and short-termism abounds.

That is not to say that they have no regard for profit or markets - just that they tend to take a long-term view of things, and that's more of a reason to concentrate on a core of established products (like DSLRs) and leave the riskier stuff for market-testers (like the K-01) that are built on existing technologies that can be adapted. If they did something for the Western hipster market, you can bet there'd be a K or a Q-mount in there, but repackaged to suit that market.

[JPT]

I'm a bit late to this thread ... but ...

I saw a comment from "kenspo" on that pentaxrumors.com site. It reads, "New mount, short register, K adapter for compatibility: there will be a nice little surprise in 2017 The future is bright, Ricoh are in for the long perspective."

Did he just throw that in there because he thinks we don't know he has an inside track to Ricoh and he may be thinking that nobody would believe him anyways? Heh! Well, I'm going to start saving up for Xmas 2017 now.

Well, there have been fake posts from Kenspo on another forum, but assuming this is real, it means two things:
- Ricoh is choosing a very ambitious route. As I said, their K-mount sales at the low end seem to be slow, but maybe slower than I thought.
- Kenspo is in trouble again! That's really sensitive information that will cause uncertainty.

[RonHendriks1966]

I don't think the fact of whether a camera is mirrorless or DSLR in it's underlying technology is as important as what features it brings in what package and at what price. So if Ricoh takes a marketing approach, they will look at how well the current APS-C models are selling, why people buy them, and most importantly why the people who buy other brands don't go for Pentax. I think the big reasons are weight, focusing performance and focusing noise with the kit zooms.

Unfortunately, I don't think Pentax's low end DSLRs sell very well these days. I'm looking at Japan, because it's what I know, and it seems to be the most important market for Pentax. When I look at online availability for the 600-700g bunch (K-30/K-50/K-S2/K-70), you can still get any kit of these cameras new, and the older ones are discounted just as much as the K-01 ever was. In contrast, the K-01 and K-S1 were also discounted, but at least they sold out - most shops don't have the K-S1 any more. I can tell this by looking at the number of sellers that still have availability on the price comparison website kakaku.com and from looking in the B&M stores. It's also notable that K-70 is being produced at 5,000 a month compared to the K-1's 7,000. That seems the wrong way round, and leads me to believe that Ricoh sees it as having more of an enthusiast appeal, and missing our on the consumer market.

Pentax and Ricoh have been quite adventurous in experimenting with design to make low end DSLRs more appealing to the mass market. They started with the colours, then hundreds of custom colours, then the mirrorless K-01, then the styling of the K-30, then the more conventional K-50, then to pop styling with the K-S1 and the K-S2, and finally coming back to a more conventional look with the K-70. I find it completely believable that they would now try a retro model - it's practically the only thing the haven't tried, and other brands have had some success with it. If the way to get closest to a K-1000 design with a digital body is the make it mirrorless, then they may do it that way.

I wrote it before in another thread. The fanboy "Pentax Police Squad" was very angry with me for that. The K-70 isn't leaving shops. It has almost no online presence with reviews. You can't find work done with it that is good enough to look at. I don't think that production is still on the level it started with, or won't be for long. I guess they already have a warehouse full of unsold boxes.



From a very different thread in the K-S2 section...

With the K-50 selling at rock-bottom prices in recent months, it is a little harder (for the entry-level consumer) to justify spending twice as much for a camera that has wi-fi and flippy screen. I have thought about adding the K-S2 or even K-S1 someday but am waiting for the prices to drop to K-01 or K-50 levels -- maybe Black Friday sales?

But at this point, although K-S2 does appeal to me, it doesn't seem enough of a jump up from my K-50 to make it worth it. I am tempted by the K-3 though...

I do think that this is the main factor. The K-S2 was I believe designed to replace the K50, but the supply of new K50's at $370 (1 kit lens) and $470 (2 kit lenses), has not run out yet. The K50 (based on the K5 sensor) does a great job, and I believe just gets overshadowed in price. You really do not need to spend that much more to get a K3. I think if the K50's supply of new bodies ran out in the 1st quarter of 2015, it would be a slightly different story, but apparently that wasn't the case.

I think that Pentax is going to have to carefully manage the introduction of the FF, replacement K3/II and the replacement of the K50/K-S1/K-S2 better in terms of supply, overlap, timing, features and price.

We are 15 months later and the K-50 is still the better deal.

For a new K-70 body only you can get a brand new K-50 with 18-135mm lens and a SD card and a spare third party battery.

---

Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 10-09-2016 at 02:55 AM.

[totsmuyco]

I don't know what seems to be going on. But last year I wanted a k-5IIs and I couldn't get a brand new unit in Japan. You guys are saying that there are still new k-50 units being sold somewhere. I believe that Pentax needs to to do a lot of marketing to get it's inventory moving. I'm planing to buy a new camera for my daughter and it might be a k-70 if there will be no negative feedback. I'm not getting a k-50 as the system seem to be old for me. Again, availability of brand new k-50s really point to poor sales efforts. They should've been sold out like the k-5IIs years back. I hope Ricoh has a plan to improve its sales efforts.

[pinholecam]

The K1 is enough of a camera that I'd want for the foreseeable future.

So if there is a camera that I'd buy, it would be a digital mirrorless spotmatic.

[Kunzite]

Well, there have been fake posts from Kenspo on another forum, but assuming this is real

Don't

Yes, Kenspo - our Kenspo - confirmed it's a fake. In any case, if he can say something, he would do it here; we should not attribute to him anything that wasn't posted on this forum.
But, Ricoh might very well be on an ambitious route - one involving the K-mount and mirrors and pentaprism-shaped hunks of glass.

[6BQ5]

Don't

Yes, Kenspo - our Kenspo - confirmed it's a fake. In any case, if he can say something, he would do it here; we should not attribute to him anything that wasn't posted on this forum.
But, Ricoh might very well be on an ambitious route - one involving the K-mount and mirrors and pentaprism-shaped hunks of glass.

Aww, shucks ... well, I'm still going to start saving for Xmas 2017.

[ogl]

Source, please?

It's just logic. K-01 was very successful - we know it from interview of Ricoh's top-manager.
Even special K-01 white-blue was made for Japan because of high demand of camera.
K-S1 was very short period at the markets and had no any serious interest for the users.

[Kunzite]

"Logic" fails - especially when it's built to "prove" an already made conclusion
Link to the interview where K-01 was said to be "very successful", please? They made the blue K-01 citing "continued demand" in Japan, and AFAIK that model was sold only in Japan (it so happens that the Q was/is successful on that market, and less so in Europe or Americas). All that tells us is that they made another batch.

[RonHendriks1966]

I don't know what seems to be going on. But last year I wanted a k-5IIs and I couldn't get a brand new unit in Japan. You guys are saying that there are still new k-50 units being sold somewhere. I believe that Pentax needs to to do a lot of marketing to get it's inventory moving. I'm planing to buy a new camera for my daughter and it might be a k-70 if there will be no negative feedback. I'm not getting a k-50 as the system seem to be old for me. Again, availability of brand new k-50s really point to poor sales efforts. They should've been sold out like the k-5IIs years back. I hope Ricoh has a plan to improve its sales efforts.

Brandnew and in stock.

http://www.kamera-express.nl/product/12186825/pentax-k-50-zwart-18-135mm-wr/

They even have K-3 in stock. But that is probably old stock, since it is not on order for shops for some time now to restock.

[reh321]

I wrote it before in another thread. The fanboy "Pentax Police Squad" was very angry with me for that. The K-70 isn't leaving shops. It has almost no online presence with reviews. You can't find work done with it that is good enough to look at. I don't think that production is still on the level it started with, or won't be for long. I guess they already have a warehouse full of unsold boxes.
.....
For a new K-70 body only you can get a brand new K-50 with 18-135mm lens and a SD card and a spare third party battery.

You are entitled to your opinions, but they are just that, opinions. I am still seeing new and used-like-new K-01, K-50, and K-S2 units out there, and of course K-70 sales will drag a little because of that. My personal opinion is that the lower tier market is tilting towards MILC, and if that is true, then then these cameras will never see the demand Pentax, Canon, and Nikon have been hoping for - which is the very reason this thread exists. I am seeing good pictures posted here by K-70 users; K-70 users are reporting quality better than K-30/50. At some point I will buy one, unless something even better comes along, but since my K-30 is just 22 months old, right now I don't feel any great compulsion to buy anything right now, and {coming back to the purpose of this thread} I would dearly love an MILC variant of the K-70 to be one of the options made available to me.