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08-02-2008, 08:34 PM   #31
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OK rice if you feel you are being persecuted by yet another forum then I will gladly wait for Adam to come weigh in on this..

08-02-2008, 08:45 PM   #32
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RH, What ftpaddict did was what I was referring to though how he went about it (not asking you) is wrong since he copied so much. You can sum it by New DSLR to Diversify, FF is being looked at and developed for next year, Hoya is helping Pentax w/ materials but Pentax still manages its distribution etc of cameras.
As to Ned, He is often linking to photos from new tests of a lens or an advertisement, both as an inform not looking for direct pic comment rather than collective feelings.
I, unlike others, defended you on ocasion, have high respect for you, as I hope you do for me since we both go back over 5 years on the forums together. I was only saying that to avoid Flaming and food for the troll argument a little more than a link would be nice. I do enjoy how much you went into detail and opinion and much feel the same way about some things (diversify etc) Thanks for the research.
So again we shale extend the olive branch between us and Get back to photographing not just measurbating

Edit: I did not see the comments between you and joele before writing this, but I think now after reading them (comment of not just a direct link) I think were all good here.
08-02-2008, 10:48 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrendanPK Quote
RH, What ftpaddict did was what I was referring to though how he went about it (not asking you) is wrong since he copied so much.
It was a copy of a copy... what's the big deal here. If you don't want something quoted (the source was easily implied) don't post it in a public place....
Did RH ASK that site if he could translate that article? Is he paying them for the privledge?
Makes me truely wonder about people.
08-03-2008, 02:04 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Me too ....
Do you accept Mongolian Express Credit Cards?

Ben

08-03-2008, 04:21 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Just did a spreadsheet on U.S. pricing using B & H as the source.
Oly E-420 $440.00
Nikon D40 w/lens $470.00
Oly E-510 $486.00
Sony A 200 w/lens $500.00
Oly E-420 w/lens $530.00
Oly E-510 w/lens $550.00
Oly E-520 $550.00
Sony A 300 w/lens $600.00
Pentax K200D $600.00
Nikon D40X w/lens $610.00
Nikon D60 $620.00
Oly E-520 w/lens $640.00
Pentax k200D w/lens $650.00
I am wondering where this new model will fit in. If you are right about it being the least expensive it would have to be below the Nikon D40 w/lens @$470. If it is as small and light as the Oly I'm in. Hope you are right.
I wonder how come Olympus launched E520 at the same price as the E510 are selling..I saw it at all the places and can't help but wonder..

What will happen to K200D's price once the entry level dslr comes? price difference between K200D and K20D is too much compared to the likely price difference of the new dslr and K200D..SO does it mean that the current price of K200D won't fall much (if not rise)? Or will Pentax launch a replacement of K200D and sell it at a higher price? Canon kept the price of 450D significantly high so as to make room for 1000D..

Hrishi
08-03-2008, 04:46 AM   #36
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If this is the sort of site where links to on-topic opinion articles can be censored I will have to reconsider my involvement here.

I may not agree with RiceHigh but I defend his right to an opinion. Posting a link to a non-commercial site which has content that is on topic and timely is not spamming.
08-03-2008, 06:27 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
If this is the sort of site where links to on-topic opinion articles can be censored I will have to reconsider my involvement here.

I may not agree with RiceHigh but I defend his right to an opinion. Posting a link to a non-commercial site which has content that is on topic and timely is not spamming.
I tend to agree. However, with RH, there is a systematic and well thought out formulation that seems contrived and ingenuous.

We have have several discussions and they are not really constructive, in that the "raison etre" has more to do with promoting his platform than adding to a real and honest dialogue.

Ben

Last edited by benjikan; 08-03-2008 at 08:00 AM.
08-03-2008, 06:37 AM   #38
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rparmar seriously what are you talking about. It has nothing to do with his right to do anything. The facts are RiceHigh is a troll who has continuously used this site to run up the traffic to his own personal website. If he wants to express his opinion here at Pentaxforums let him knock himself out. But that is not what he does. He starts a thread with no content except a link to his personal website. How is his opinion being censored when no opinion was even expressed.

The best thing is SakiBoy pretends like he is the victim. That is a classic M.O. of an internet troll.

08-03-2008, 06:41 AM   #39
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Back to the subject....

Another translation, maybe this one is less biased
Well, reading the original interview in Chinese, I had to say, the wording used by Pentax means actually " We noted the trend also, and we are now in the process of starting to plan for the R&D of such line of products. Still, in the near to short term, we will be focusing on APS-C sized product. .... "

If you understand Japanese and Chinese, you would understand such wording do not mean that there is an actual plan or any firm action to do such product yet. More a prep or feasibility study instead.
Considering Pentax resource, I am not a bit surprised

Translation do not come true: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
Another translation and commentary......
All the interview said was that Pentax had "noticed" the Canon and Nikon 35mm bodies and:

"He Chaitian-chi: We have taken note of this new trend, and is planning full-Picture product development. But recently we will focus on areas of APS SLR specifications. To be sure, this year we will not launch a full-Picture SLR products."

Note they are PLANNING a "full picture" product development, some day in the future. This is the same sales babble you get any time you ask for a product that a company doesn't have. "Yeah, we're planning to do one of those, but lets talk about these great new models today..."

Anything from RH's site must be taken with a whole truckload of salt, not merely a pinch.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=28826526



Soooo...
AND to the censorship topic... I have to agree that posting just a "look here" quote without a summary of what your looking at is equivalent to a lousy "pop-up" ad and shouldn't be allowed. Post a synopsis and a link and let people choose to go there or not. It's just rude and self serving to do it any other way.
AND when you use the hit counter as validation of your worth (though many of those are empty or negative hits), it's just sad.
A truely "free" society just leads to anarchy when some take advantage of it.

Last edited by jeffkrol; 08-03-2008 at 06:58 AM.
08-03-2008, 07:46 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
@Ash - I'm glad you had a moment of joy! RH should read this, too.

We should be thankful for the Kiplings of the world whose work endures, and though we invite C&C here, understand this commentary on critics

50. Conundrum of the Workshops. Rudyard Kipling. Modern British Poetry

....

Always reminds me of a New Yorker cartoon I saw years ago...

Studious-looking young man holding a book and buxom, pretty blonde are
sitting under a tree in a romantic, bucolic setting.

Man: "Do you like Kipling?"
Girl: "I don't know, you naughty boy, I've never Kippled!"






.
08-03-2008, 08:51 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
rparmar seriously what are you talking about. It has nothing to do with his right to do anything.

[,,,]
The main purposes of a society are to protect the individual members from harm and to advance the condition of the individual members through group effort. Over time, expectations of individual behaviors (or the absence thereof) evolve that foster attainment of the society's goals.

In any free society there must be certain behaviors that, while technically a right, might not be acceptable in that society. A society with no expectations of permissible - and impermissible - behaviors is an anarchy.

In order to allow a free society to operate certain assumptions and expectations of behaviors exist between persons in the society - otherwise they cannot communicate, negotiate or trust each other, and the society serves no purpose. Most rules in free societies define impermissibe behaviors - they are "Thou shalt not" rules.

Three forms of rules or codes or understandings define the working of a free society:
  • Legal - in modern societies, written rules that can be adjudicated by independent judges
  • Moral - in modern societies, rather vague expectations that behaviors do not threaten the principal pairing unit. Typically religious expectations fall under this category.
  • Social - evolving expectations of inter-personal behaviors that either allow large groups of people to live in close proximity and promote efficient interaction, or proscribe behaviors that create discord or are risky.
Violation of these rules or codes or structures typically results in some form of ostracism of he who violates them - in order to preserve the right and ability of the society to exist and function, and to protect the expectations of the members that the OTHER members will behave in a certain way.

Forms of ostracism:
  • Legal - usually some form of confinement or punishment.
  • Moral - usually denial of certain of the benefits those who are "moral" receive.
  • Social - refusal of members of the society to interact with the violator because he cannot be trusted to behave as the members assume one will - interaction with this member is inefficient, risky or discordant.
RiceHigh has broken no express Forum rule that I have ever read, so appealing to Adam to "ban" him is not a valid solution - there is no "law" for Adam to adjudicate. Likewise it is not clear that any written rule warranting censorship has been violated, so appealing to a Mod to delete a thread is unjust and is, further, offensive to our concept of free discussion.

RiceHigh has broken no moral rule that I can think of.

I submit, regardless of one's opinion of RiceHigh's position on Pentax equipment, the content of his blog, his purpose in posting here or the value of his information, his behavior has been repeatedly outside the boundaries of the social norms of this Forum. Whether with or without intent, his posts have caused discord among the members.

Therefor, ostracize him. Simply add RiceHigh to your Ignore list - you will not see his comments in any threads. Don't fall into the trap I did on this thread and be tempted by the title. If RH posts a thread, just skip it.

Responses - here and to his blog - apparently are what RH wants. Eventually if he does not get what he wants here he will just stop, going elsewhere to get the responses that he wants.

Simple ostracism - refusal to interact with RH because he cannot be trusted to abide by the UNWRITTEN rules of discourse here - should do the trick eventually.

Last edited by monochrome; 08-03-2008 at 03:34 PM.
08-03-2008, 09:02 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Do you accept Mongolian Express Credit Cards?

Ben
Ben,

I am shocked that you don't have at least Mongolian Visa Platinum Card

Radu
08-03-2008, 09:28 AM   #43
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monochrome were did I ever say "ban"? Or even imply "ban"?

In a free society people like RiceHigh take full advantage of other peoples hard work which is not free in the least. Ask the moderators and Adam if their time is free they put into this site. RiceHigh continually pulls this same stunt every few months knowing that people will come to his defense. He counts on it to legitimize his behavior which is to direct traffic to his personal website.

This isn't an open and free society. It is an internet website created by Adam. He has done an excellent job at maintaining a civil decorum without resorting to overhanded intervention.

When SakiBoy starts claiming as though he is being mistreated as the victim when he also claims to be a long time internet user which would imply he is internet savvy only points more to the fact he is simply an experienced internet troll.

Naturally the best policy is to ignore him. That is not always possible when SakiBoy has 8,000 forum members he can pull from who may not ignore him.
08-03-2008, 09:47 AM   #44
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Rico: My apoligies to you if you feel I was responding to something you wrote here. These misunderstandings are precisely the threat posed by interacting with RiceHigh - his posts are intended to create discord among our members (or at least they always do), whatever his perverse reasons. I quoted the portion of your post specifically referring to "rights" to support your point and introduce my solution. Rice High has every right on this Forum to do what he does; but exercising his right is destructive to our generally positive social environment.

I most certainly did not intend to imply, in what I thought was a reasoned and rational post devoid of emotionality, that you (or anyone else) ever suggested RiceHigh should be banned from PentaxForums. Other sites ban posters with whom the "Site Owner" disagrees, not this one.

The point of the section about laws or Forum Rules is that Adam has made no rule about RiceHigh's behavior - and Adam has intentionally not so done.

The ENTIRE point of my post is to assert that RiceHigh intentionally and repeatedly behaves in a fashion contrary to our norms of social discourse - he takes advantage of our goodwill - and to show that the only solution to RiceHigh's behavior is to just ignore him.

[EDIT]: Actually, this IS a free society: anyone can join; anyone can do or say anything here, subject to the few Forum Posting Rules; anyone can leave, anytime; levies are voluntary.

Last edited by monochrome; 08-03-2008 at 10:05 AM.
08-03-2008, 11:10 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Another translation, maybe this one is less biased
[COLOR="Blue"............
If you understand Japanese and Chinese, you would understand such wording do not mean that there is an actual plan or any firm action to do such product yet. More a prep or feasibility study instead.
..........................
In other words: don't stand-by in anticipation; Stand-by to Stand-by.
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