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08-10-2008, 06:42 PM   #46
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FF, APS-C--I don't care, just as long as the camera, lens, photographer combination produces great pics. Even with the APS-C sensor in my K10D, I could produce poster-sized images if want to. Other than the noise issue with the K10, I attribute any less than great pics to operator error as opposed to the camera and lens itself.

Long live APS-C!

On the original subject of the DA primes yet to be released, I'm really looking forward to the DA*55/1.4. Assuming that it's just as good as the rest of the lenses in the DA* series, I'll be trading up to it from my A50/1.7.

I really don't think that there needs to be as much griping about lenses being slow to be released as there is. When you think about it, this year alone, Pentax has released 6 (by my count) lenses this year already--DA35, DA55-300, DA200, DA300, DA18-55II, & DA17-70, with #7 (*60-250), which will hopefully be released by the end of the year. As for bodies, this year has brought us the K20 and the K200, with at least one more to be announced at Photokina, even if it isn't released before the end of the year. Overall, I think Pentax/Hoya is doing an amazing job of getting the new gear out to us, considering their size and other challenges that they've had to deal with.

Out of pure curiosity, I wonder how many new lenses each have Canon and Nikon released this year?

Chris, thank you for your voice of reason in this discussion.

Now, I will go post some pics on the lens forum.
Heather

08-10-2008, 07:04 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by hwblanks Quote
FF, APS-C--I don't care, just as long as the camera, lens, photographer combination produces great pics. Even with the APS-C sensor in my K10D, I could produce poster-sized images if want to. Other than the noise issue with the K10, I attribute any less than great pics to operator error as opposed to the camera and lens itself.
Agreed!

QuoteQuote:
Long live APS-C!
It is a great format and will continue to serve for a *very* long time yet.

QuoteQuote:
On the original subject of the DA primes yet to be released, I'm really looking forward to the DA*55/1.4. Assuming that it's just as good as the rest of the lenses in the DA* series, I'll be trading up to it from my A50/1.7.

I really don't think that there needs to be as much griping about lenses being slow to be released as there is. When you think about it, this year alone, Pentax has released 6 (by my count) lenses this year already--DA35, DA55-300, DA200, DA300, DA18-55II, & DA17-70, with #7 (*60-250), which will hopefully be released by the end of the year. As for bodies, this year has brought us the K20 and the K200, with at least one more to be announced at Photokina, even if it isn't released before the end of the year. Overall, I think Pentax/Hoya is doing an amazing job of getting the new gear out to us, considering their size and other challenges that they've had to deal with.
I am definitely *not* griping about the lenses being released and I also think that Pentax has done a marvellous job with what they have done. The reason for my posts is to show that it is completely unfounded that anyone ahould be complaining. We have plenty of lenses to suit 99% of users and I wonder why there are so many complaints. I have a complete range of lenses to suit my shooting style and couldn't be happier with them and 5 of my lenses are APS C only lenses, but would gladly purchase more if I required them.

QuoteQuote:
Out of pure curiosity, I wonder how many new lenses each have Canon and Nikon released this year?
LOL. . A good point, Heather.

QuoteQuote:
Chris, thank you for your voice of reason in this discussion.

Now, I will go post some pics on the lens forum.
Heather
Cheers,
Lance
08-10-2008, 07:15 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by hwblanks Quote
FF, APS-C--I don't care, just as long as the camera, lens, photographer combination produces great pics.
I agree It should be called FFS (For F&$%ks Sake) as that's how I feel whenever I see people whinge and moan about the lack of Full Frame camera.

Who cares. The photos you can create with your APS-C camera right now, especially the K20D are more than adequate for most printing needs.

It really doesn't matter.
08-11-2008, 03:40 AM   #49
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What about CMOS ability to do on-the-fly-cropping? D3 does simply this.

Then, just for curiosity: 18-55 on full frame is usable from 20,22mm but vignettes badly at 18mm: maybe the newest II° revision has resolved this and is actually FF compatible?


P.s. I hope APS-C will cut the differences with FF in a couple of years. Take a look to K20 and think it's only the 1st generation.

08-11-2008, 04:00 AM   #50
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I hate doing any processing on the little screen on the back of the camera, so on the fly cropping for me would be as useless as the liveview is now.

The only reason I use the screen is for histogram and a quick scroll in to check for blur.
08-11-2008, 04:28 AM   #51
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The DA35, DA40 and DA70 have also been confirmed to work on full-frame (film) cameras, without cropping of the image, though with light fall-off at corners. How much this bothers you depends on the shots you take, and whether cropping a bit would ruin your creativity. Even ignoring them, we have the following list of in-production lenses:

FA 31
FA 35
FA 43
FA 50
D FA 50 macro
FA 77
D FA 100 macro
DA* 200
DA* 300

That looks like a complete system to me. Do Canon or Nikon have better? No way.
08-11-2008, 04:41 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
That looks like a complete system to me. Do Canon or Nikon have better? No way.
If you are talking about FF primes then you are right. But what about the zooms, are there any zooms left compatible with fullframe?
08-11-2008, 06:48 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by troywhite Quote
I hate doing any processing on the little screen on the back of the camera, so on the fly cropping for me would be as useless as the liveview is now.

The only reason I use the screen is for histogram and a quick scroll in to check for blur.
I mean that if you put a DX lens o a D3, the body recognise the lens and goes in APS-C mode automatically!


Anyway, it looks that Pentax actually is the ONLY with a "one shot one kill" lens lineup: so many duplicates in the Nikon lineup...VR not VR, DX and FX, internal AF motor or body driven....Pentax lenses really cover every focal range, but don't need two or three 300mm to cover 300mm focal range.

08-11-2008, 08:23 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
DA35
DA40
DA70
FA 31
FA 35
FA 43
FA 50
D FA 50 macro
FA 77
D FA 100 macro
DA* 200
DA* 300

That looks like a complete system to me. Do Canon or Nikon have better? No way.
That's a good enough system for me, but as someone else said, there's not a single zoom in production at the moment. Plus there are no wide angle primes, not even a 24mm, much less 20mm or 14mm (Unless the DA14 is FF ready, I just assumed it isn't). Nor are there any super telephotos for nature folks. Although if I were a nature photographer I think I'd prefer 4/3's or APS-C just to save ton of cash and weight on telephoto lenses.

But to answer your questions, yes Canon does have better...if you are willing to pay for it. Plus most of their primes have ultrasonic motors, and in the popular focal lengths they offer 2 and sometimes 3 options (one for each budget). Plus their top of the line L series are all weather proof. I simply can't justify the cost of Canon L glass, but there's a reason the vast number of pros use them. Pentax got my business by undercutting Canon in price and making smaller lenses (gotta love the pancakes), not by offering better selection.
08-11-2008, 09:12 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by troywhite Quote
I hate doing any processing on the little screen on the back of the camera, so on the fly cropping for me would be as useless as the liveview is now.

The only reason I use the screen is for histogram and a quick scroll in to check for blur.
I agree, I use my screen mostly to check for exposure (balance) and the electronic preview is great for that. I don't see any need for live view or in camera editing.

Mike.
08-11-2008, 09:26 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
But to answer your questions, yes Canon does have better...if you are willing to pay for it. Plus most of their primes have ultrasonic motors, and in the popular focal lengths they offer 2 and sometimes 3 options (one for each budget). Plus their top of the line L series are all weather proof. I simply can't justify the cost of Canon L glass, but there's a reason the vast number of pros use them. Pentax got my business by undercutting Canon in price and making smaller lenses (gotta love the pancakes), not by offering better selection.
Well, sure, I was being a bit slapdash in my comment by not qualifying it properly ("complete system" should have read "complete starter system"). I agree with you about needing a wide angle and something more telephoto. Though, being FF, one doesn't have to get too wide, and for telephoto ASP-C has its place (as you said).

As for zooms... these could come in the production line-up. After all we're considering what FF lenses Pentax could start a system with, not those it would end up with when all was said and done.

As for Canon having better... I doubt it. They do have more, but better glass? That's not what people more expert than myself say.

I wonder if we're off topic enough here?
08-11-2008, 12:18 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Plus their top of the line L series are all weather proof.
Wrong as far as I remember (from memory here) ...
08-11-2008, 01:01 PM   #58
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My error, I just looked it up, some of their older L glass is not, but most are now. I found this list in a Canon forum:

16-35mm 2.8 L USM
17-40mm 4L USM
24-70mm 2.8 L USM
24-105mm 4 L IS USM
70-200mm 2.8 L IS USM
200mm 2 L IS USM
300mm 2.8L IS USM
400mm 2.8L IS USM
400mm 4 DO IS USM
500mm 4 L IS USM
600mm 4 L IS USM
800mm 5.6 IS L USM
14mm 2.8 L USM
50mm 1.4 L USM

But anyways, back to the Pentax DA*'s...didn't mean to get so off topic.
08-11-2008, 02:08 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
I still don't understand this "Have to make FF cameras or they will die" debate....

Nikon is in business because of there D40 and now D60... Canon is in business because of it's Rebel series... Sony is in the business because of it's low end Alpha series...

When I talk to the heads of these photo companies and people who work for them they know darn well that the Full Frame cameras make them no money compared to what their entry level camera market makes them. They make no more than 2% of there yearly DSLR sales period for any of the big two.

BTW, the DA* 200, 300, 60-250; the DA 55-300, 50-200, and many others all work on full frame cameras... Rice High you are so wrong about the whole DA tag because reading others websites isn't as good as strapping these lenses on a K1000 and running a roll through them like I have.

Pentax is making full frame lenses and cameras period and that doesn't come from Pentax but other camera manufactures in the industry that work closely with them. Sony like Minolta before them works very closely with Pentax and they know what is coming just like I do as some others who get a decent amount of privileged information.

Pentax will have a 40 lens lineup within the next year or two and will be a bigger name with the pros and will bring cameras to take out the entry level market from the Big Two.

These silly talks are just that... silly. Unless you actually know something from Pentax and not some silly rumors from Kazakstan or someplace like that you do not know what you're saying just like RH.

The industry is fed by it's low end cameras and Pentax is the only brand doing the opposite so let's just watch the future pan out instead of speculating because you've all answered wrong in this thread.

I agree. The whole idea that it's suicidal for Pentax to continue making DA lenses made for 1.5x cameras is hogwash. FF digital cameras make up something like 2% of total DSLR sales. Reality tells me that with the limited resources Pentax has it would be a bad move to put large resources into FF. There is zero logic to it. If people want or need FF that badly there are 2 options out there. A much more sane move would be for Pentax to continue refining the 1.5x camera and lenses and then make a digital MF camera with an interchangeable back.

My next purchase will be a DA70 limited, and I await the DA15 limited. No hesitation with that. The sky isn't falling as much as some people would like you to think it is.
08-11-2008, 02:25 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
The DA35, DA40 and DA70 have also been confirmed to work on full-frame (film) cameras, without cropping of the image, though with light fall-off at corners. How much this bothers you depends on the shots you take, and whether cropping a bit would ruin your creativity. Even ignoring them, we have the following list of in-production lenses:

FA 31
FA 35
FA 43
FA 50
D FA 50 macro
FA 77
D FA 100 macro
DA* 200
DA* 300

That looks like a complete system to me. Do Canon or Nikon have better? No way.
That is the list I have seen as well. These seams to produce a full frame picture circle, but another question is how much bigger than full frame the circle is. I guess noone has been able to test for that. If Pentax want to have SR in a FF, they would need an even bigger circle. I guess the camera could disable SR when shooting FF, but SR is one of Pentax key competetive edges so I would think they would not like that. Or maybe this is not a big problem, you might only see some random vigneting in or or two of the corners, and the camera could potentially compensate for that...

I guess we will see maybe in a year what Pentax has decided to do and which lenses will work.
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