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01-08-2017, 10:30 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by bkpix Quote
I could sell everything I own and buy an SL and a 50mm lens
Do it...You KNOW you want one...


Steve

01-08-2017, 10:32 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Is CES a global show or just North America?
It is Las Vegas and intended for anyone who might go there for trade shows...basically N. America.


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01-08-2017, 11:14 AM - 4 Likes   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Out of curiosity, what would you be prepared to do without? And how low a resolution would you be prepared to accept?

Remember that to give you that lower resolution they have to install a different sensor, which may change everything behind it; it could actually cost MORE to do that. Nikon, Canon etc. can do it by putting an older, proven FF sensor into a newer shell; the only old FF sensor Pentax has is... the 6MP MZ-D Philips unit!!! (And that never went into mass production, unless Pentax's secret shame is a warehouse full of MZ-D cameras patiently awaiting a shipping date that will never come. Then again, huge caches of slide rules keep on being discovered and fed into the collectors' market, so theoretically anything is possible.)
I'm holding out for a metal body, no-auto, no back LCD, full-frame DSLR in m42 for less than $100.

I'm willing to compromise on the resolution.
01-08-2017, 11:26 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Conceptual illustration of something similar:
I love the look! But practically, if it was digital, it looks like there is no mirror? And some grip is good, I don't know how people comfortably used traditional slrs with big heavy metal lenses. And the marker for the film is so far back! Not possible with both an IBIS sensor and a rear lcd... might look more like a k-01

But I want one


Last edited by Imp; 01-08-2017 at 11:35 AM.
01-08-2017, 12:03 PM   #20
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I would definitely buy one!

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
First of all, I will emphasis that lower price point is not the motivation. In regards to resolution, 24 Mpx is the current sweet spot for FF performance. Unless one has a persistent need for severe crop and/or the need to produce fine art prints larger than 13"x20", 24 Mpx suits me just fine. As for features...If available, I would jump at the chance to buy what some users on this site refer to such as a LX-D or Spotmatic D. Knowing that production of such a camera by Ricoh/Pentax is unlikely (Cosina are you listening?), I do think that a something like the below list might be a good thing.

Pentax K-1 Lite (K-3FF ??):
  • 24 Mpx sensor
  • Conventional rear LCD
  • No gee-whizz function and settings dials
  • Full-sized top LCD
  • No Wi-fi
  • No GPS
  • No Astrotracer
  • Less/different body lighting
  • Shorter silhouette and less bulky than K-1
  • Lighter than K-1
  • Battery life comparable to K-3
  • USB3 connectivity
As I mentioned above, the ultimate would be something like an updated K-mount SLR version of the EPSON RD1:
  • Non-crippled (KA) mount
  • Manual focus with full coverage, high magnification, traditional viewfinder
  • Non-motorized mirror/shutter cocking
  • Optional motor drive
  • Weatherized metal construction
  • Optimized for low power consumption allowing for small battery and compact form factor
Conceptual illustration of something similar:


My apologies to the original artist. I don't remember where I got this, but I really, really like it.



Steve
01-08-2017, 12:07 PM - 2 Likes   #21
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by dsmithhfx Quote
I'm holding out for a metal body, no-auto, no back LCD, full-frame DSLR in m42 for less than $100.
About as realistic as the other mirrorless fantasies presented thus far.

Are we going to 'hear' the wails and screams of the mirrorless fanatics for a decade much like we have with those wanting FF digital so desperately?

But, even if so, those that wanted FF digital didn't stop asking after they got one -- now they want lower res, higher ISO FF DSLRs, Mirrorless FF DSLRs, FF sensors as a gift in their cereal, send in 1000 koolaid points and get a FF sensor, etc. It doesn't seem to end.
01-08-2017, 12:08 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
I love the look! But practically, if it was digital, it looks like there is no mirror? And some grip is good, I don't know how people comfortably used traditional slrs with big heavy metal lenses.
We learned to use left hand to support lens and right hand to support body.
01-08-2017, 12:20 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by bkpix Quote
From seeing them, I'd say Ricoh/Pentax would be wasting its time and money to beef up its presence here. This is a committed tech crowd, not a bunch of photographers.
I disagree. When Canon, Sony, Nikon and Panasonic show up with their latest camera gear and I mean the entire camera hardware offering, then it is geared toward someone who is interested in photography. After all aren't cameras tech gadgets?

BTW, Ricoh has already spent (a bloody fortune) for the space. What was missing was samples of what the K1 can do. That was my point. Ricoh spent probably something well north of $250K to be in a major international show (30% of the 170K attendees come from overseas) and they have tons of empty wall space with hardly any sample images. I have seen tons of stunning images on this very forum, any of which would have made the passerby stop and take a second look. That is the challenge with these shows. Have people pause long enough in front of your booth to notice what else is inside. Canon did it with their best images, Nikon did it. For gods sake even Panasonic did it with images produced with the GH5 which were not that great anyway. K1 images would have stood up with the best of the bunch. Instead we have one great image by Kerick and another non descript hillside shot (only two prints on the wall) and a "sample portfolio" book on the table which looked like it was reproduced on a photocopy machine! The presentation was a disgrace. What a shame, a great opportunity missed... again, just like last year.

01-08-2017, 12:21 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by dsmithhfx Quote
I'm holding out for a metal body, no-auto, no back LCD, full-frame DSLR in m42 for less than $100.

I'm willing to compromise on the resolution.
You must be joking. The sensor is probably $700 or more alone. :P
01-08-2017, 12:31 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
As I mentioned above, the ultimate would be something like an updated K-mount SLR version of the EPSON RD1: Non-crippled (KA) mount Manual focus with full coverage, high magnification, traditional viewfinder Non-motorized mirror/shutter cocking Optional motor drive Weatherized metal construction Optimized for low power consumption allowing for small battery and compact form factor
TTL flash sensor, please... and off-the-plane metering if it can be managed (off the sensor? shouldn't be too hard).
01-08-2017, 12:46 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Pentax K-1 Lite (K-3FF ??):
  • 24 Mpx sensor
  • Conventional rear LCD
  • No gee-whizz function and settings dials
  • Full-sized top LCD
  • No Wi-fi
  • No GPS
  • No Astrotracer
  • Less/different body lighting
  • Shorter silhouette and less bulky than K-1
  • Lighter than K-1
  • Battery life comparable to K-3
  • USB3 connectivity
My apologies, I wasn't paying attention - is this a list of what reviewers would complain about, in this "K-1 Lite"? Oh, and people on this forum, too, especially when Canon and Nikon will launch their next entry level FFs with articulated screens and Wifi and whatever?

Food for thought: that "conceptual illustration" was made by someone who never designed a working camera.

---------- Post added 08-01-17 at 09:47 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by dsmithhfx Quote
I'm holding out for a metal body, no-auto, no back LCD, full-frame DSLR in m42 for less than $100.
I'm sure Canon and Nikon already have something like that.
01-08-2017, 01:15 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Food for thought: that "conceptual illustration" was made by someone who never designed a working camera.
unfortunately
01-08-2017, 01:31 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
I love the look! But practically, if it was digital, it looks like there is no mirror?
The illustration is based on the Spotmatic. The mirror box is the same depth as on the K-1. Strangely enough the actual pentaprisms (the glass part) are very similar in size as well. For an indication of additional thickness should IBIS be added, look at the Sony A7II vs the A7.

QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
I don't know how people comfortably used traditional slrs with big heavy metal lenses.
I learned with that class of gear and handling is easier than one would think. As noted above, the camera is cradled from below with the left hand. It also helps that while dense, most film bodies are considerably lighter than comparable format dSLRs. Consider the MZ-S. Its basic capabilities are similar to the K-1, but it weighs half as much and is about the same size as a K-70. Ditto for the more primitive Spotmatic. Shooting with the body in a half-case improves the handling too.

At present, my heaviest combination is my Tamron SP 70-210/3.5 (19AH) paired with my Minolta SRT 101. The pair weighs in at 1.4kg and is hand-holdable, though is best used with a lens support on tripod. (Compare the K-1 + D FA 70-200/2.8 at about 2.8kg...2x the weight.)

To be fair, not all film SLRs handle well. Some are as bad as bricks and a few are far worse than a brick. My Exakta VX1000 is quite possibly the worst-handling camera ever made. It is quite heavy and designed to slip easily from the hand. In addition, all controls including film wind are positioned for left-handed operation. Things are OK with the case on and almost impossible with it off.

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01-08-2017, 02:04 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
(...)

What are Canon, Nikon and Sony showing? What are Panasonic, Olympus and Fuji showing? What are Samsung, LG and Sharp showing? That will answer the question.

(...)
At CES 2016 Nikon announced the D5 and D500 professional DSLRs, Olympus the M.Zuiko Digital ED 300mm f/4 IS Pro and Panasonic the Leica DG Vario-Elmar 100-400mm f/4-6.3.

There is therefore room for DSLR and high-end announcements at CES.
01-08-2017, 02:10 PM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
unfortunately
Why unfortunately? That half-done Photoshop job cannot work IRL, or were you hoping that it magically could?

People are always wishing about such things, their dreams never detailed enough to become realistic. But if a company would do their best to make it happen, I doubt those people would actually buy it. Instead, they would observe differences, have additional requests, complain about the price...
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