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01-07-2017, 11:25 PM   #1
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CES Observations

Did anyone attend CES in Las Vegas? What did you think of Ricoh/Pentax booth?

I did attend to see only Pentax and a few other select exhibitors. Pentax finally gave K1 some overdue attention and the rest of the space was primarily dedicated to the Theta.

I have a lot more to say but I am interested in knowing what other people thought of the Pentax presence.

01-07-2017, 11:45 PM   #2
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No prime lens news?
01-07-2017, 11:57 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by OoKU Quote
No prime lens news?
While they have shown prototypes at CES in the past, we shouldn't expect that. The CP+ show is a much more comfortable place to show such (DSLR) products.. since it is in Japan and geared more towards Photographers that general Consumers.
01-08-2017, 03:12 AM   #4
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I hope for a higher end full frame camera at CP+, so used K-1 may drop in price.

Thats the most promising photo trade show this year for K mount. List of shows

Other potentially interesting:
- Maybe a 645 teaser or launch at WPPI also in february
- Maybe some more (software) Theta news at Cebit in march or Computex in may


Last edited by Simen1; 01-08-2017 at 03:19 AM.
01-08-2017, 03:17 AM   #5
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CP+ is probably most prestigious exhibition for camera market, CES is more "gadgets and new tech" oriented, but there was some nice sueprises in the past during CES. Theta technology is IMO among best new products released in last 5 years, and fits CES profile in all terms
01-08-2017, 03:46 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Reed Quote
Theta technology is IMO among best new products released in last 5 years, and fits CES profile in all terms
What they said ^^^^

QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
I hope for a higher end full frame camera at CP+, so used K-1 may drop in price.
My hope is for a "junior" FF with reduced feature set and lower resolution. Probably the best hope for lower prices for used K-1 would be end-of-life for that model, something that is unlikely for several years.


Steve
01-08-2017, 04:13 AM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
My hope is for a "junior" FF with reduced feature set and lower resolution.
Out of curiosity, what would you be prepared to do without? And how low a resolution would you be prepared to accept?

Remember that to give you that lower resolution they have to install a different sensor, which may change everything behind it; it could actually cost MORE to do that. Nikon, Canon etc. can do it by putting an older, proven FF sensor into a newer shell; the only old FF sensor Pentax has is... the 6MP MZ-D Philips unit!!! (And that never went into mass production, unless Pentax's secret shame is a warehouse full of MZ-D cameras patiently awaiting a shipping date that will never come. Then again, huge caches of slide rules keep on being discovered and fed into the collectors' market, so theoretically anything is possible.)
01-08-2017, 04:43 AM   #8
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The K-1 is already amazingly affordable - its price being lower than the launch price of the D610 and 6D. Only the Sony A7 and A7II were slightly cheaper, and those are mirrorless cameras.
Oh, yes, the street prices are lower; but that's because the 6D is more than 4 years old, and the D610 itself is a slight alteration of a more than 4 years old camera. Ask Pentax to match those prices... in 2020
Another thing - lower prices are a combination of cost cutting and volume. Pentax could do some cost cutting (the less reliable aperture mechanism from the K-50 is an example ), but they don't have the volume. And no, volume won't magically appear just by selling cheaper; actually they tried that strategy in the past and it failed (or should I say, backfired?).

But let's assume Ricoh Imaging would be able to make a FF DSLR with significantly reduced feature set which is ~200$ cheaper. All that effort for a mere ~10% and the product still won't be as cheap as the 4 years old competing models, or second hand, or grey market, or stolen merchandise (you can always get "cheaper" if that's the only criteria you're pursuing). It doesn't sounds so tempting now

01-08-2017, 09:12 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Reed Quote
CP+ is probably most prestigious exhibition for camera market, CES is more "gadgets and new tech" oriented, but there was some nice sueprises in the past during CES. Theta technology is IMO among best new products released in last 5 years, and fits CES profile in all terms
That's what I'm trying to say..

CES -- Consumer Electronics Show
CP+ -- Camera and Photo Imaging Show

Btw from looking at the floorspan PDF and a google street view map (that has mapped the entire Pacifico Yokohama floorspace https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4600788,139.634487,3a,75y,53.65h,95.69t/data...6!9m2!1b1!2i52) I see that Ricoh is located in front, on the left side of the space, by a main entrance way for CP+ -- prime real estate. As soon as you walk in, you see Ricoh/Pentax.
01-08-2017, 09:20 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
I am interested in knowing what other people thought of the Pentax presence.
Thank you all for your feedback. We quickly got into techy talk... what FF camera is coming next, what lenses were missing etc. I want to know what people thought about Pentax PRESENCE in the show. This is a macro question as opposed to a micro questions. Overall feel and how image making which is the focus of everyone on this forum was presented in the show. Hint "it was almost nonexistent."
01-08-2017, 09:46 AM - 1 Like   #11
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I'm in Vegas this weekend, by sheer coincidence. Won't be attending CES -- too much like work -- but have been surrounded daily by its tens of thousands of registrants. From seeing them, I'd say Ricoh/Pentax would be wasting its time and money to beef up its presence here. This is a committed tech crowd, not a bunch of photographers. Very few of them carry conventional cameras. They all dress alike -- jeans, dark t-shirts or golf shirts, blazers or leather jackets -- and I've seen several managing two iPhones at once. Not much sense they're here to discover the next great DSLR.

On the other hand, I saw -- for the first time in my life -- a little white Pentax DSLR (K-X?) being shot by other than a young Japanese woman. It was a 30-something guy (not wearing a CES badge) in front of the Bellagio, photographing the fountain. Didn't get a chance to talk with him.

And I might drop by the Leica store at Caesar's Palace this afternoon. I could sell everything I own and buy an SL and a 50mm lens
01-08-2017, 09:53 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
Thank you all for your feedback. We quickly got into techy talk... what FF camera is coming next, what lenses were missing etc. I want to know what people thought about Pentax PRESENCE in the show. This is a macro question as opposed to a micro questions. Overall feel and how image making which is the focus of everyone on this forum was presented in the show. Hint "it was almost nonexistent."
Yes, they had realtime 360 theta feed so anyone could 'attend.' But you're getting the responses you're getting for what you already know ( as seen in your hint ), so I don't see what you are asking us to tell you since you already know it.

They had a K-1 section, they had a big Theta section.. but the show is oriented around Consumer electronics. Therefore, Ricoh is going to display their consumer oriented electronics (Theta and the like) more than their commercial/professional electronics (DSLRs) even though they're proud of their DSLRs. So I'm not sure at what you're driving.
01-08-2017, 10:04 AM   #13
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Ricoh just spend some money there with gadget. Their presence are just ok , and should not be more.
01-08-2017, 10:23 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Out of curiosity, what would you be prepared to do without? And how low a resolution would you be prepared to accept?
First of all, I will emphasis that lower price point is not the motivation. In regards to resolution, 24 Mpx is the current sweet spot for FF performance. Unless one has a persistent need for severe crop and/or the need to produce fine art prints larger than 13"x20", 24 Mpx suits me just fine. As for features...If available, I would jump at the chance to buy what some users on this site refer to such as a LX-D or Spotmatic D. Knowing that production of such a camera by Ricoh/Pentax is unlikely (Cosina are you listening?), I do think that a something like the below list might be a good thing.

Pentax K-1 Lite (K-3FF ??):
  • 24 Mpx sensor
  • Conventional rear LCD
  • No gee-whizz function and settings dials
  • Full-sized top LCD
  • No Wi-fi
  • No GPS
  • No Astrotracer
  • Less/different body lighting
  • Shorter silhouette and less bulky than K-1
  • Lighter than K-1
  • Battery life comparable to K-3
  • USB3 connectivity
As I mentioned above, the ultimate would be something like an updated K-mount SLR version of the EPSON RD1:
  • Non-crippled (KA) mount
  • Manual focus with full coverage, high magnification, traditional viewfinder
  • Non-motorized mirror/shutter cocking
  • Optional motor drive
  • Weatherized metal construction
  • Optimized for low power consumption allowing for small battery and compact form factor
Conceptual illustration of something similar:


My apologies to the original artist. I don't remember where I got this, but I really, really like it. Spotmatic D Concept, Lieke Esveldt



Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 01-08-2017 at 03:06 PM.
01-08-2017, 10:23 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Yes, they had realtime 360 theta feed so anyone could 'attend.' But you're getting the responses you're getting for what you already know ( as seen in your hint ), so I don't see what you are asking us to tell you since you already know it.

They had a K-1 section, they had a big Theta section.. but the show is oriented around Consumer electronics. Therefore, Ricoh is going to display their consumer oriented electronics (Theta and the like) more than their commercial/professional electronics (DSLRs) even though they're proud of their DSLRs. So I'm not sure at what you're driving.
Is CES a global show or just North America? If just North America I would not expect cameras. Based on my Millenial and GenX children's tastes and needs I would expect GoPro's', DJI drones, phones and tablets, coffee, beer and food prep devices, Nest home automation gear and 'Internet-of-Things' generally, WiFi baby monitors, content storage, streaming devices for media generally (binge content consumption) - which is why Theta is FEATURED - and in general, tools that offer experiential sharing. Kids don't do things, they do moments and share them.

QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
Ricoh just spend some money there with gadget. Their presence are just ok , and should not be more.
What are Canon, Nikon and Sony showing? What are Panasonic, Olympus and Fuji showing? What are Samsung, LG and Sharp showing? That will answer the question.

It isn't clear to me that Ricoh Imaging N.A. sponsored the space. It isn't even clear that RIAC manages marketing Theta in N.A. (I'd like to know) even though the Insta and FB posts are on the RicohPentax feeds. It well could be that Ricoh B2B has a hand in this the way they have a hand in the WG camera line and old Eye-Fi cloud service. I would not be at all surprised to see that eventually hosting Theta content, or the technology (servers, nodes, UUNET leases) transferred to Theta hosting.

Last edited by monochrome; 01-08-2017 at 10:32 AM.
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