Pentax DSLR sales Japan BCN 2017 Report

TonyGuitar · 01-20-2018, 04:11 PM

On photo sites like ePhotozine.com. People notice that outstanding images are so often made with Pentax and they are going to Pentax just I did. Now I often use the Ks2 as well as the K-50. The K-50 is a bit noisy but still a world contender. Such a pleasure to use and a high count of winner photos too. Keep your sensor CLEAN. Don't change lenses just switch between two Pentax cameras....One long; K-50....with..150-600mm and One short; KS-2 with 18-50mm There is no time for changing lenses for what I do anyway. TG [Tony ]

Bophoto · 01-21-2018, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by Winder

Japan is Ricoh's strongest market and they have 4.2% and have yet to do anything to grow that. Ricoh as owned the Pentax brand since 2011. Ricoh has done some good things and produced some great products, but they have not had much success growing the brand. If Ricoh hadn't bought the Pentax brand, then they would probably be gone by now, so its a good thing that they did.

I think Richo wants to keep Pentax also for developing new products after Theta and WG-M (Action Camera).
Theta may be outdone by Samsung in the future, so new products are needed.
Mirrorless cameras are something that Pentax must come with sooner or later, so start up with Q again.
A Q mini with a bright touchscreen, simple menu (for smartphone users), no pixel shitf and maybe just Jpeg and fast auto focus.
It can be a success if Richo does it right.

Winder · 01-21-2018, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by Bophoto

I think Richo wants to keep Pentax also for developing new products after Theta and WG-M (Action Camera).
Theta may be outdone by Samsung in the future, so new products are needed.
Mirrorless cameras are something that Pentax must come with sooner or later, so start up with Q again.
A Q mini with a bright touchscreen, simple menu (for smartphone users), no pixel shitf and maybe just Jpeg and fast auto focus.
It can be a success if Richo does it right.

They need to take the KP and remove the mirror and put in an EVF. Get the Sony 24MP APS-C sensor that has PDAF from the A6500 and give the camera a boat load of processing power. That way all the K-mount APS-C lenses work. They can get into mirrorless without changing mounts and a lot of cost. Then they can continue to develop their mirrorless technology.

Bophoto · 01-21-2018, 08:24 AM

Yes, that's a good idea. A mirrorless KP probably attracts some/many Pentax users.
Many of the DA lenses are small, so keep the Kmount.
Q is an avaced camera to use and with some toy lenses. Smartphone users who want to own a real camera should be interested by a Q mini that is easy to use, touchscreen, smallest interchangeable lens camera and with 02 + a new zoom it can be a success.

thibs · 01-21-2018, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Bophoto

Yes, that's a good idea. A mirrorless KP probably attracts some/many Pentax users.
Many of the DA lenses are small, so keep the Kmount.
Q is an avaced camera to use and with some toy lenses. Smartphone users who want to own a real camera should be interested by a Q mini that is easy to use, touchscreen, smallest interchangeable lens camera and with 02 + a new zoom it can be a success.

RI won't do a mirrorless KP. They tried that and got backfired really hard (K-01). I know the current sensors allow quite better AF but it still would be a brick and be killed because of it.
No, that's not my opinion (that it should be killed) but yes this is what I believe would happen.

Kunzite · 01-21-2018, 09:40 AM

I agree; people would kill a mirrorless KP like they did with the K-01.

**Belnan** · 01-22-2018, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

I agree; people would kill a mirrorless KP like they did with the K-01.

K-01 didnt have a viewfinder
It was considered ugly, although I saw it in person and it wasnt so bad
It had contrast detect autofocus only

If a mirrorless K-P improved the looks a bit and improved the grip, perhaps a bit deeper. lightened it up some and could do this with out any sacrifices besides the OVF to EVF it might be OK. The problem is that it will still be bigger than most mirrorless, but much nicer looking than the K-01.

**barondla** · 01-22-2018, 07:16 PM - **1 Like**

Pentax should try making a mirrorless KP with K mount and EVF. It is a very inexpensive experiment vs designing a completely new system around a new lens mount. Think a lot of people would buy it. Some would be unhappy with this choice. What else is new? No camera is going to please everyone.

If this 2nd APS-c mirrorless experient fails, Pentax could then decide if they want to invest in a new lens mount and system. They would also learn from the 2nd APS-c mirrorless.

Thanks,
barondla

guinnessman · 01-23-2018, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Winder

They need to take the KP and remove the mirror and put in an EVF. Get the Sony 24MP APS-C sensor that has PDAF from the A6500 and give the camera a boat load of processing power. That way all the K-mount APS-C lenses work. They can get into mirrorless without changing mounts and a lot of cost. Then they can continue to develop their mirrorless technology.

Sounds too smart, probably will release another Q or 360 camera.

However with mirrorless, I would rather see them do a Sony and design something fresh from the ground up, don't see why they could do an adapter that allows some backwards compatibility, IIRC both Sony and Canon can do it. They would also need an AF for mirrorless that isn't trash, my K01 or K3 in live mode is just...

Wouldn't mind a cheaper FF, as I can't afford a K1, and it would take an awesome APS-C dSLR (like D500 level AF) to get me to upgrade from my K3.

Bophoto · 01-23-2018, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by barondla

Pentax should try making a mirrorless KP with K mount and EVF. It is a very inexpensive experiment vs designing a completely new system around a new lens mount. Think a lot of people would buy it. Some would be unhappy with this choice. What else is new? No camera is going to please everyone.

If this 2nd APS-c mirrorless experient fails, Pentax could then decide if they want to invest in a new lens mount and system. They would also learn from the 2nd APS-c mirrorless.

Thanks,
barondla

Yes, it's probably not that expensive for Richo, but it may be a problem for Richo that it takes buyers from Pentax DSLR.
Or keep users that is able to go to Fuji / Sony.

ShaunW · 01-23-2018, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Imp

Aaand... back down to 4.8% from 6.7%. Interesting. Obviously it fluctuates, but when the market share is so small, then it seems to fluctuate a lot! Curious

2016 BCN awards in Japan: Canon wins in almost all categories | Photo Rumors

The numbers that I have seen, which I believe were from CIPA, showed that there are more Pentax DSLR's sold than Fuji sells mirrorless bodies. However I believe these numbers were from 2015 or 2016 and may no longer be the case. I only point this out because no one speaks of Fuji having poor sells.

thibs · 01-23-2018, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by Belnan

K-01 didnt have a viewfinder
It was considered ugly, although I saw it in person and it wasnt so bad
It had contrast detect autofocus only

The K-01 was killed for 3 reasons:
* price (relatively to what it brought)
* design (heavily linked to price in this case)
* and most important: wayyyy to thick.

Most people did not understand why, except the couple price/design (which is only specific to the model) a mirrorless was so big.
Except a niche in which RI is not ready to go into IMO : Video.

In all other cases of mirrorless, they need a adapted mount.

x4rd · 01-24-2018, 03:16 AM

Originally posted by thibs

Most people did not understand why, except the couple price/design (which is only specific to the model) a mirrorless was so big. Except a niche in which RI is not ready to go into IMO : Video.

Totally agree - if they will not improve their video capabilities they have nothing to find in MILC area.

beholder3 · 01-24-2018, 04:10 AM

In a few weeks time possibly we will see how Canon solves the approach question.

Some time later Nikon come with their me-too product.

Both face the exact same decisions and soon enough we will see the market reaction (I do mean sales figures, not what fanboy sites and bloggers write in the first few days).

If Ricoh is smart, they simply wait to see where it all is heading after the dust settles.

The only one who is really on the loosing end then is Sony. It can only get worse for them.

Mistral75 · 01-24-2018, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by ShaunW

The numbers that I have seen, which I believe were from CIPA, showed that there are more Pentax DSLR's sold than Fuji sells mirrorless bodies. (...)

Definitely not from CIPA : they don't publish figures per manufacturer, only aggregated ones.

To put things in perspective: Ricoh Imaging's sales ("Smart Vision" in the current reporting) are less than half those of Leica Camera AG.

01-21-2018, 07:49 AM	#108
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Bophoto I think Richo wants to keep Pentax also for developing new products after Theta and WG-M (Action Camera). Theta may be outdone by Samsung in the future, so new products are needed. Mirrorless cameras are something that Pentax must come with sooner or later, so start up with Q again. A Q mini with a bright touchscreen, simple menu (for smartphone users), no pixel shitf and maybe just Jpeg and fast auto focus. It can be a success if Richo does it right. They need to take the KP and remove the mirror and put in an EVF. Get the Sony 24MP APS-C sensor that has PDAF from the A6500 and give the camera a boat load of processing power. That way all the K-mount APS-C lenses work. They can get into mirrorless without changing mounts and a lot of cost. Then they can continue to develop their mirrorless technology. Last edited by Winder; 01-21-2018 at 08:49 AM.

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01-20-2018, 04:11 PM	#106
TonyGuitar New Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 15	On photo sites like ePhotozine.com. People notice that outstanding images are so often made with Pentax and they are going to Pentax just I did. Now I often use the Ks2 as well as the K-50. The K-50 is a bit noisy but still a world contender. Such a pleasure to use and a high count of winner photos too. Keep your sensor CLEAN. Don't change lenses just switch between two Pentax cameras....One long; K-50....with..150-600mm and One short; KS-2 with 18-50mm There is no time for changing lenses for what I do anyway. TG [Tony ]

01-21-2018, 07:44 AM	#107
Bophoto Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 429	Originally posted by Winder Japan is Ricoh's strongest market and they have 4.2% and have yet to do anything to grow that. Ricoh as owned the Pentax brand since 2011. Ricoh has done some good things and produced some great products, but they have not had much success growing the brand. If Ricoh hadn't bought the Pentax brand, then they would probably be gone by now, so its a good thing that they did. I think Richo wants to keep Pentax also for developing new products after Theta and WG-M (Action Camera). Theta may be outdone by Samsung in the future, so new products are needed. Mirrorless cameras are something that Pentax must come with sooner or later, so start up with Q again. A Q mini with a bright touchscreen, simple menu (for smartphone users), no pixel shitf and maybe just Jpeg and fast auto focus. It can be a success if Richo does it right.

01-21-2018, 08:24 AM	#109
Bophoto Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 429	Yes, that's a good idea. A mirrorless KP probably attracts some/many Pentax users. Many of the DA lenses are small, so keep the Kmount. Q is an avaced camera to use and with some toy lenses. Smartphone users who want to own a real camera should be interested by a Q mini that is easy to use, touchscreen, smallest interchangeable lens camera and with 02 + a new zoom it can be a success.

01-21-2018, 09:28 AM	#110
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Bophoto Yes, that's a good idea. A mirrorless KP probably attracts some/many Pentax users. Many of the DA lenses are small, so keep the Kmount. Q is an avaced camera to use and with some toy lenses. Smartphone users who want to own a real camera should be interested by a Q mini that is easy to use, touchscreen, smallest interchangeable lens camera and with 02 + a new zoom it can be a success. RI won't do a mirrorless KP. They tried that and got backfired really hard (K-01). I know the current sensors allow quite better AF but it still would be a brick and be killed because of it. No, that's not my opinion (that it should be killed) but yes this is what I believe would happen.

01-21-2018, 09:40 AM	#111
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I agree; people would kill a mirrorless KP like they did with the K-01.

01-22-2018, 05:10 PM	#112
Belnan Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,090	Originally posted by Kunzite I agree; people would kill a mirrorless KP like they did with the K-01. K-01 didnt have a viewfinder It was considered ugly, although I saw it in person and it wasnt so bad It had contrast detect autofocus only If a mirrorless K-P improved the looks a bit and improved the grip, perhaps a bit deeper. lightened it up some and could do this with out any sacrifices besides the OVF to EVF it might be OK. The problem is that it will still be bigger than most mirrorless, but much nicer looking than the K-01.

01-22-2018, 07:16 PM - 1 Like	#113
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,714	Pentax should try making a mirrorless KP with K mount and EVF. It is a very inexpensive experiment vs designing a completely new system around a new lens mount. Think a lot of people would buy it. Some would be unhappy with this choice. What else is new? No camera is going to please everyone. If this 2nd APS-c mirrorless experient fails, Pentax could then decide if they want to invest in a new lens mount and system. They would also learn from the 2nd APS-c mirrorless. Thanks, barondla

01-23-2018, 05:05 PM	#114
guinnessman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Missoula, MT Posts: 175	Originally posted by Winder They need to take the KP and remove the mirror and put in an EVF. Get the Sony 24MP APS-C sensor that has PDAF from the A6500 and give the camera a boat load of processing power. That way all the K-mount APS-C lenses work. They can get into mirrorless without changing mounts and a lot of cost. Then they can continue to develop their mirrorless technology. Sounds too smart, probably will release another Q or 360 camera. However with mirrorless, I would rather see them do a Sony and design something fresh from the ground up, don't see why they could do an adapter that allows some backwards compatibility, IIRC both Sony and Canon can do it. They would also need an AF for mirrorless that isn't trash, my K01 or K3 in live mode is just... Wouldn't mind a cheaper FF, as I can't afford a K1, and it would take an awesome APS-C dSLR (like D500 level AF) to get me to upgrade from my K3.

01-23-2018, 05:24 PM	#115
Bophoto Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 429	Originally posted by barondla Pentax should try making a mirrorless KP with K mount and EVF. It is a very inexpensive experiment vs designing a completely new system around a new lens mount. Think a lot of people would buy it. Some would be unhappy with this choice. What else is new? No camera is going to please everyone. If this 2nd APS-c mirrorless experient fails, Pentax could then decide if they want to invest in a new lens mount and system. They would also learn from the 2nd APS-c mirrorless. Thanks, barondla Yes, it's probably not that expensive for Richo, but it may be a problem for Richo that it takes buyers from Pentax DSLR. Or keep users that is able to go to Fuji / Sony.

01-23-2018, 10:10 PM	#116
ShaunW Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 60	Originally posted by Imp Aaand... back down to 4.8% from 6.7%. Interesting. Obviously it fluctuates, but when the market share is so small, then it seems to fluctuate a lot! Curious 2016 BCN awards in Japan: Canon wins in almost all categories \| Photo Rumors The numbers that I have seen, which I believe were from CIPA, showed that there are more Pentax DSLR's sold than Fuji sells mirrorless bodies. However I believe these numbers were from 2015 or 2016 and may no longer be the case. I only point this out because no one speaks of Fuji having poor sells.

01-23-2018, 10:57 PM	#117
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Belnan K-01 didnt have a viewfinder It was considered ugly, although I saw it in person and it wasnt so bad It had contrast detect autofocus only The K-01 was killed for 3 reasons: * price (relatively to what it brought) * design (heavily linked to price in this case) * and most important: wayyyy to thick. Most people did not understand why, except the couple price/design (which is only specific to the model) a mirrorless was so big. Except a niche in which RI is not ready to go into IMO : Video. In all other cases of mirrorless, they need a adapted mount.

01-24-2018, 03:16 AM	#118
x4rd Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 241	Originally posted by thibs Most people did not understand why, except the couple price/design (which is only specific to the model) a mirrorless was so big. Except a niche in which RI is not ready to go into IMO : Video. Totally agree - if they will not improve their video capabilities they have nothing to find in MILC area.

01-24-2018, 04:10 AM	#119
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	In a few weeks time possibly we will see how Canon solves the approach question. Some time later Nikon come with their me-too product. Both face the exact same decisions and soon enough we will see the market reaction (I do mean sales figures, not what fanboy sites and bloggers write in the first few days). If Ricoh is smart, they simply wait to see where it all is heading after the dust settles. The only one who is really on the loosing end then is Sony. It can only get worse for them.

01-24-2018, 06:11 AM	#120
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by ShaunW The numbers that I have seen, which I believe were from CIPA, showed that there are more Pentax DSLR's sold than Fuji sells mirrorless bodies. (...) Definitely not from CIPA : they don't publish figures per manufacturer, only aggregated ones. To put things in perspective: Ricoh Imaging's sales ("Smart Vision" in the current reporting) are less than half those of Leica Camera AG.