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04-12-2017, 01:01 PM - 3 Likes   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
On the contrary: they are focusing on high-end cameras, so KP will become the entry model, then you'll have an APS-C flagship (the successor to K-3 II), K-1 and 645Z (with a 100Mpix successor in 2018).
And that will generate lots of traffic here, because so many people seem to want premium cameras but want to pay bargain-basement prices.

04-12-2017, 01:33 PM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
And that will generate lots of traffic here, because so many people seem to want premium cameras but want to pay bargain-basement prices.
This is a serious issue. Overhere prices for body only.

- K-50 for 399 euro
- K-S2 for 599 euro
- K-70 for 699 euro
- K-3ii for 949 euro
- K-3ii Silver for 999 euro
- KP for 1299 euro
- K-3 Silver Limited for 1499 euro
- K-3iii for 1699 euro ?????
- K-1 for 2099 euro

That will be difficult to find buyers for that K-3iii

Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 04-12-2017 at 01:58 PM.
04-12-2017, 01:50 PM - 1 Like   #153
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QuoteOriginally posted by The Squirrel Mafia Quote
If it means that the upcoming camera will be able to run circles around similar offerings from Canon, Nikon, & Sony, I'm all for it.
The newly announced D7500 in everything but tracking and possibly low light performance, looks inferior to the current K-3, and doesn't have the PS capability or any equivalent of the K-3ii. Pentax already has that for the average shooter.
04-12-2017, 02:07 PM - 1 Like   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
This is a serious issue. Overhere prices for body only.

- K-50 for 399 euro
- K-S2 for 599 euro
- K-70 for 699 euro
- K-3ii for 949 euro
- K-3ii Silver for 999 euro
- KP for 1299 euro
- K-3 Silver Limited for 1499 euro
- K-3iii for 1699 euro ?????
- K-1 for 2099 euro

That will be difficult to find buyers for that K-3iii
Man, I feel good about the prices in Florida

---------- Post added 04-12-17 at 05:10 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The newly announced D7500 in everything but tracking and possibly low light performance, looks inferior to the current K-3, and doesn't have the PS capability or any equivalent of the K-3ii. Pentax already has that for the average shooter.
Reminds me of the old joke about the 11th Commandment, (which was used in Florida a lot when Tiger Woods got caught, and was said to have violated it)...

"Thou shalt not trade down..."


04-12-2017, 06:31 PM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The newly announced D7500 in everything but tracking and possibly low light performance, looks inferior to the current K-3, and doesn't have the PS capability or any equivalent of the K-3ii. Pentax already has that for the average shooter.


except for 8fps, buffer size, 4k video, tilt screen, touchscreen, wifi, bluetooth, and flash sync speed.
04-12-2017, 06:52 PM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
except for 8fps, buffer size, 4k video, tilt screen, touchscreen, wifi, bluetooth, and flash sync speed.
You do know the K-3 is 8.3 fps don't you?
Plus the K-3ii has dual card slots.

The 50 shot buffer of the D7500 is impressive, but it should be better given that it's 4 MP less resolution.

I don't want a touch screen, i have a flu card for wifi and remote trigger.
I don't use flash, so flash sync speed is irrelevant.

And it's very likely that the AF.s speed will also be inferior to the K-3s.

Maybe in the next incarnation Nikon will actually catch up in some area most people find important, AF.s speed, MP etc. They are really good at the frills though.

But it is nice that Nikon has a released a model that has caught up to and in some cases surpassed a 4 year old K-3, you do understand that we'll probably be seeing a K-3 replacement in the next few months and Nikon will once again be almost completely inferior as opposed to just half inferior. They will have their 51 point coms grid and better tacking AF.c, and probably larger buffer. For most of us it's about image IQ, not the frills. I don't think Nikon has a chance to keep up going with a 20 MP sensor.

Looking at the KP, I seriously doubt the D7500 is in any way going to be ahead in ISO, it's 51,000 ISO is already behind the KP with it's super-high sensitivity ISO 819200 the Nikon 51200 ISO.

I look at the Nikon 7500 and I see nothing meaningful that I'd pay money for as a K-3 owner. Especially since I've learned to work comfortably with a 23 frame buffer, and 8.3 fps. And the K-3 is a 4 year old system.

Better to wait for the next PentaxAPS-c flagship, like the K-3 compared to the D7500, the Pentax will probably have more of what you want, and less of the stuff you don't care about, with whatever Pentax has decided to develop over the last 4 years as a benefit. Tilt screen, third dial, great menu layout and ergonomics, WR and a stable of WR lenses, some for very reasonable prices.

Plus Shapke Reduction and Pixel Shift and Astrotracer, things Nikon will probably never have.

Release price is 1299 a K-3ii has both shake reduction, a built in GPS, astracer, and pixel shift for $899. More of what i want, less of what i don't want.
The Nikon may have superior tracking, but it has nothing to compete with Pixel Shift image resolution or IQ. You can have tracking on the Nikon, but the faster AF.s and better IQ available on the Pentax would still be things in favour of Pentax for people buying to day. And you can get a great lens for the $400 you save. And with Pentax you have shake reduction on every lens ever made in both K-mount and M42.

Last edited by normhead; 04-12-2017 at 07:29 PM.
04-12-2017, 07:34 PM   #157
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bh didn't list in the fps specs, i didn't remember it being that high! i don't ever remember taking 3/10 of a picture though.

some of those things i wouldn't use either, but dismissing them as frills because they don't align with your personal habits is a little absurd... will i use a touchscreen? probably not. should all pentax cameras have them by now? absolutely.
04-12-2017, 07:42 PM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
bh didn't list in the fps specs, i didn't remember it being that high! i don't ever remember taking 3/10 of a picture though.

some of those things i wouldn't use either, but dismissing them as frills because they don't align with your personal habits is a little absurd... will i use a touchscreen? probably not. should all pentax cameras have them by now? absolutely.
I know this is tough for some to fathom, but, believe it, or not #1 in my personal habits is IQ. How good a picture can I take? (cough Pixel Shift cough.) NOw if some folks want to insist on wifi 4k video and whatever else would be called frills.

I can take a decent images with a view camera, no AF, one frame per minute, that's a basic camera. People took images with cameras like that for years. But you think these modern additions including AF aren't fills? OK, then we understand where you are coming from.

Personally I would define a frill as anything not necessary to the core function of the camera. Maybe you have a different definition?

04-12-2017, 07:44 PM   #159
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D7500 is made to increase sales fromNikon owner who dream to get a D500 but find the price to high . With the the success of D500, they decide to use the 7500 as their new model . Should have been D7300 or D7400 but these name are not that good
04-12-2017, 07:49 PM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
except for 8fps, buffer size, 4k video, tilt screen, touchscreen, wifi, bluetooth, and flash sync speed.
Yes, Pentax K3 does 24Mpixel and 8.3 FPS with dual SD cards slots.

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
That will be difficult to find buyers for that K-3iii
I sold my K3 to finance the K1, and I have the DFA150-450, if the K3iii happens to be having similar specs as the K3 but with competitive AF, I'll get one.
Perhaps, I'm not the only one who sold his K3 and not buying a KP.

If the K3III does not materialize this year, I'll likely sell my DFA150-450, and rent 1DxII and long prime for wildlife.
04-12-2017, 07:53 PM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
..... I don't ever remember taking 3/10 of a picture though....
fps = 8.3 means it takes 25 frames in 3 seconds, while fps = 8 would have taken 24.
Since I typically use the "Lo" burst rate on my K-30 when I use burst at all, I guess that difference doesn't matter to me, but it might matter to Norm or even you, just as the touch-screen might actually matter to someone.

Last edited by reh321; 04-12-2017 at 09:21 PM.
04-13-2017, 05:15 AM   #162
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It wouldn't matter to me, and actually, but thats what i see in this camera, I don't see anything that really matters to me. It is an improvement in that it's 8 FPS with full tracking if i understand the marketing hype. Pentax slows down considerably with tracking turned on, to about 4 FPS as has as I can tell. But, I turn on tracking maybe 5 times a year.

Meanwhile, what did you give up to get that 8 FPS? 4 MP, Shake reactions and Pixel shift, GPS , astrotracer. I can honesty say, I use Pixel shift more than tracking, which I pretty much use twice a year when I go to Niagara Falls, and for images of my dogs catching balls.

You actually have to give up quite a lot in possible IQ. So this camera is being sold as a sports type camera. SO for the average guy, this camera makes as much sense as my buying a Formula 1 car. It's the old car thing, going with more and more horsepower. Sure it sell to the ego maniacs, people who see what they drive as part of their personal grooming habits.

With it's 24 MP and Pixels shift the K-3ii is capable of much better images. So to me, it's kind of like buying a car that doesn't have room for you groceries. My first question in a Proche dealership would be "Is there a factory roof rack option? OK then, how about t a trailer hitch?"

This looks like a nice camera, but, it's not a Pentax, and it doesn't do best what Pentax does best.

I see the D7500 as a camera that sacrifices things I want to get things I need 5 times a year.
04-13-2017, 05:25 AM   #163
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I don't understand the emphasis people put on 2 SD slots, as they currently work. If you don't get any extra write speed [because they're not writing in parallel], you're getting the same usage you get with 1 slot, except for safety, workflow, or other specialist scenarios. Better off asking Pentax for parallel write on the slots, or 90MB/s write speed, or a bigger buffer to match those 8fps.


Ricoh says they're going for the high-end market. Prove it. Give me high-end tracking AF (with a realistic price) on a KP or K-1 and I'll buy it. The rest of the specs are mostly pretty good, by current standards. And things like IBIS and a Pixel Shift that goes for IQ instead of IS(ize) show their intent on improving our "fun with photography".
Just don't mistake high-end market with "high-end price with the same stuff inside". Please...
04-13-2017, 06:27 AM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I know this is tough for some to fathom, but, believe it, or not #1 in my personal habits is IQ. How good a picture can I take? (cough Pixel Shift cough.) NOw if some folks want to insist on wifi 4k video and whatever else would be called frills.

I can take a decent images with a view camera, no AF, one frame per minute, that's a basic camera. People took images with cameras like that for years. But you think these modern additions including AF aren't fills? OK, then we understand where you are coming from.

Personally I would define a frill as anything not necessary to the core function of the camera. Maybe you have a different definition?
i know this is tough to fathom, but it's not about you. it's about appealing to a wider audience. people care about 4k, touchscreens, and the rest. why should pentax give any ground to the competition?

---------- Post added 04-13-17 at 09:36 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
fps = 8.3 means it takes 25 frames in 3 seconds, while fps = 8 would have taken 24.
Since I typically use the "Lo" burst rate on my K-30 when I use burst at all, I guess that difference doesn't matter to me, but it might matter to Norm or even you, just as the touch-screen might actually matter to someone.

the .3 will never make a difference if the buffer only allows 23 in raw... i don't know if raw+jpeg brings the buffer down more?
04-13-2017, 07:54 AM - 1 Like   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
i know this is tough to fathom, but it's not about you. it's about appealing to a wider audience. people care about 4k, touchscreens, and the rest. why should pentax give any ground to the competition?
Because it's not about you, and a great number of us don't care about the things you're going on about. Pentax has always been about best IQ for the buck. Adding frills just makes the cameras weaker at their core purpose for the price. I never said people don't want frills, some do. I just want better images, and I'm guessing the average Pentax user is more like me than what you are describing. Lots of folks cater to the "heavy on frills crowd." That doesn't mean everyone has to do it.

QuoteQuote:
the .3 will never make a difference if the buffer only allows 23 in raw... i don't know if raw+jpeg brings the buffer down more?
I'm actually quite comfortable with the 23 shot buffer. At a recent animal photo op, in the amount of time I shot 600 images the 1Dx shooting guy beside me shot 1300. But our images were practically identical. He had more of them but why do you need 20 copies of each pose? 3 or 4 will do. I rarely fill my buffer, because my usual method is shoot a 3 or 4 shot burst in one position.,wait for the animal to change his pose, shoot another burst. It is very rare I fill my 23 shot buffer. I find 8 FPS and a 23 shot buffer a very well matched configuration.

ANd you didn't say they were equal or it didn't make a difference but you did say the D7500 was better. I'm saying not for me, and not for a lot of other Pentax shooters.

I'm saying if all my gear got stolen today and I had a pile of money from insurance to put into anything I want, a K-3ii would be my choice over a D7500. ANd its the kind of decision any reasonable Pentax shooter could make. There's nothing about the D7500 that stands out for me. Would every 4k shooting wifi and bluetooth customer buy it? Of course not, but every Pixel Shift, astrrotracer, GPS user would. And despite your claiming I make it all about me, there are a lot of those.

Last edited by normhead; 04-14-2017 at 05:31 AM.
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