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04-14-2017, 11:33 AM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I think it's important to Pentax that the KP high ISO and KP tracking algorithms make it into an 8 fps (or better) 23 shot buffer (or better) fairly soon. The tech advances have been made, they don't have a platform yet.
I think the D500 is an overkill and too expensive. Recent D7500 is actually less attractive than a K3, except for it's AF but it's not super duper either.
The KP is good for compactness, but the specs aren't as good as the K3 for wildlife.
For most of use shooting wildlife, a camera like the K3 with updated AF module would do it.

04-14-2017, 01:06 PM   #182
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Early days but the D7500 is looking like a big fail in the making. It seems like a crippled camera designed purely by marketing bods to avoid eating into D500 sales.
Who is this D7500 for? If you have a D7200 there seems to be not many reasons to move, in fact it is mostly a downgrade. If you are considering a D500 but are on a budget, you may as well just buy a slightly used D500 for similar money.
I really wonder what Nikon was thinking on this one.

I predict a lot of Nikon defectors over this. Big opportunity for Ricoh to scoop up some new users. Especially if they come up with a really great K3iii.
04-15-2017, 06:40 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I think the D500 is an overkill and too expensive. Recent D7500 is actually less attractive than a K3, except for it's AF but it's not super duper either.
The KP is good for compactness, but the specs aren't as good as the K3 for wildlife.
For most of use shooting wildlife, a camera like the K3 with updated AF module would do it.
Indeed. But it seems the economics are against it...
If they could "take" the improved IQ from the KP, and add an improved AF to the specs of the K3ii, that would be a very nice K3iii.
But that wouldn't be enough for nice sales numbers.
Throw in a few technology upgrades to appeal to a larger crowd (4K, wifi, whatever is the latest fad) and they'd make the current users happy and maybe get some new ones.

As for the increase in price: If people pay 1000 hard currency for a phone (which is the price of a nice laptop), price isn't the problem, it's something else...

I've seen people taking pics in a 1yr old Sony compact that came out worse [on screen] than a Samsung S3. So they rightfully question the point in buying a compact.
People don't like to read instructions, they just like to "point and shoot" and get a nice image, that's at least as good as what they're seeing. And camera manufacturers seem to have forgotten that. So, they got trampled by phones, and the compact segment is as it is...

---------- Post added 04-15-17 at 02:49 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
A price hike today. The K-1 is now 2299 euro and the K-3ii is now 999 euro!
K-1 2000 (200-300 jump)
KP 1100 (same price)

Looks like they're making room for something, or maybe just that the sales are going better than expected...

On the good side, whoever bought a K-1 at launch, will be able to exchange it for the next iteration for very little money, due to their price increase
04-15-2017, 07:43 AM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
A price hike today. The K-1 is now 2299 euro and the K-3ii is now 999 euro!
I actually see these price hikes as possibly heralding a K3iii - opening up a space at around the E1600 mark - significantly cheaper than the K-1 and not undermined by K3ii or KP

04-15-2017, 08:07 AM   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
I actually see these price hikes as possibly heralding a K3iii - opening up a space at around the E1600 mark - significantly cheaper than the K-1 and not undermined by K3ii or KP
Agreed. KP is not the APSc flagship. Missing key items compared to K-3 and K-3II. Remember the 11th Commandment... THOU SHALT NOT TRADE DOWN...

---------- Post added 04-15-17 at 11:09 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I think the D500 is an overkill and too expensive. Recent D7500 is actually less attractive than a K3, except for it's AF but it's not super duper either.
The KP is good for compactness, but the specs aren't as good as the K3 for wildlife.
For most of use shooting wildlife, a camera like the K3 with updated AF module would do it.
YUP!!! I would however, grovel for onboard GPS, and a few more Mp
04-15-2017, 09:43 PM   #186
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Geizhals.de suggests plenty of K-1 around for under €2,200 and K-3ii for under €950 with Poland being cheapest at €931ish. Stop spreading FUD.
04-16-2017, 12:34 AM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I think the D500 is an overkill and too expensive. Recent D7500 is actually less attractive than a K3, except for it's AF but it's not super duper either.
The KP is good for compactness, but the specs aren't as good as the K3 for wildlife.
For most of use shooting wildlife, a camera like the K3 with updated AF module would do it.
Can you explain what K3 features that KP misses are important for wildlife?

AFAIK, both camera have the same pixel count, roughly same size, weight, weather sealing and ruggedness, and they share the same AF hardware.
Both have built in flash and GPS needs an external accessory.
KP has built in wifi, which makes it easier for remote control.
It also has a tiltable LCD and inherited some of the K1 ergonomy, like the third mode wheel.
KP new sensor, higher processing power and improved algorythm should deliver beter high ISO performance, which is important for long telephoto shooting, and all test rate KP AF as better than 4 years old K3.
The 5 axis IBIS is rated as improved when compared to 3 axis K3.
The smaller DLI109 battery has a smaller capacity but, when not using the built in flash, it allows around 400/600 shots on my older K30, which is OK.

K3 has a second card slot, a slightly higher burst rate and a top lcd, but I dont think any of these should really matter for wildlife (as for me, I never use the high speed burst rate).

Let me be clear: I dont shoot much wildlife but I enjoy my K3, and I dont consider KP as an upgrade for my photography. But, if my K3 got broken or stolen, I might consider KP as a valuable replacement.
04-16-2017, 12:36 AM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
Geizhals.de suggests plenty of K-1 around for under 2,200 and K-3ii for under 950 with Poland being cheapest at 931ish. Stop spreading FUD.
I look at the biggest internet shop overhere. Wat is FUD, some fungus?

04-16-2017, 12:53 AM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I wrote this last august and combining this with the new information from Ricoh about the camera division I think I was on the right track. That new aps-c turned out to become the KP.



I don't think we will see a K-3ii follower anytime soon.
I do agree: the overall ILC market keeps shrinking, all camera manufacturers suffer and are reducing their product catalog, mirrorless sales resist while DSLR sales are collapsing.

Hence if Ricoh wants Pentax to stay in business, they need to reduce their offering to advanced models. K-70 will replace K-S2 as entry level, there is no room for anything below, KP is the new advanced APS-C DSLR and those who want flagship performance can buy K1.
K3-II will stay on the shelves until all the manufactured batches are sold.

IMO, the only true holes in the Pentax offering are the lack of FF prime lenses wider than FA31 and fast AF f2.8 APS-C zooms.
In such a niche market, the screwdriven AF of FA and DA limiteds is not really an issue, as when shooting with primes, the best silent AF performance is not what matters most.
04-16-2017, 01:08 AM   #190
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I'm thinking so too.
Several new good lenses would attract a lot of customers.
If they improve 17-70/4 (or 2.8 star line) I'll buy Pentax APS-C.
If they show something like 28-135/4 or 24-105/4 (better than Canon and Nikon offerings but sealed, unlike Sigma) for FF I'll buy Pentax FF.
I have Nikon now, but I`ll be good with a little slower body with better lens.

Last edited by Surovi; 04-16-2017 at 01:37 AM.
04-16-2017, 02:35 AM   #191
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Some excerpts (Google translation) from yesterday's message posted by Japanese photographer Tanaka in his blog:

Photo of the Day K-3 II ≧ KP > K-70

QuoteOriginally posted by Tanaka:
Although the position of the three models of APS-C-type single-lens reflex actually becomes "K-3 II > KP > K-70", the intention of Ricoh is "KP is independent from the flow of the conventional single lens reflex camera series". (...)

Therefore, the planning staff explained that it was "K-3 II ≧ KP" instead of "K-3 II > KP" (...)
.
"We are continuing to develop the successor models of K-3 II, but it will take some time before completion, but we will definitely deliver good products", so it is said that KP is not a successor model of K-3 II, but that a successor model of K-3 II will come out separately.
04-16-2017, 07:04 AM - 1 Like   #192
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Just add improved 17-70/4 with it
04-16-2017, 07:28 AM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I look at the biggest internet shop overhere. Wat is FUD, some fungus?
FUD = Fear Uncertainty Doubt

FUD is the way to attack something with nothing. A previously-dominant company like AT&T or IBM will say something like "Yeah, they are cheaper and seem to offer more power for their less money, but your grandfather depended on us and you can depend on us also"
04-17-2017, 01:54 AM   #194
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The price hikes for april have been confirmed by a large german online retailer and sponsor of a local forum.
Remaining lower prices just seem to be stock that has been build before the official price reposition.
04-17-2017, 01:54 AM - 1 Like   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tatouzou Quote
Can you explain what K3 features that KP misses are important for wildlife?
...
K3 has a second card slot, a slightly higher burst rate and a top lcd, but I dont think any of these should really matter for wildlife (as for me, I never use the high speed burst rate).
Allow me to jump into the discussion.

All three features are practical for wildlife, depending the situation. I photograph all sorts of subject matter, but when I'm shooting wildlife (which I frequently do) the number of images I make is much much higher than for any other subject. I go into burst mode seldom, but again for wildlife I do more often (though still not much I admit), esp when an animal shows rapid repeating movement this allows capturing the best moment more easily (the faster the burst rate the better). You also want to keep your eye on your subject as much as possible, so deleting shots in between is not a good idea (I do that a lot in other situations). Result: many many many more images on the cards, and they fill up much faster.

Now this is not a problem because the second card slot doubles my capacity and it helps filling up the cards to the brim. Filling up cards is important to use maximum capacity. On a one card slot camera I found it best practice to exhange cards during calm moments as soon as they are about 100 to 200 shots from max capacity in case of wildlife. Otherwise the risk of running out of capacity in a situation unfriendly to a card change gets to too high. This approach makes a big difference in the overall available capacity on your cards (esp on a long trip), and means you have to keep an eye on card capacity all the time. Having two card slots takes this worry away, since this allows me to wait to exchange cards in the hotel at night, and to do so only if during the day I went onto the second card.

Top LCD is less obvious, but also practical for wildlife. Often you are photographing from a space restricted position (hide, vehicle, ...) through a relatively narrow opening of sorts. And always with a long lens on a support. It just isn't obvious to move back enough to look at a rear LCD to verify settings when not looking through the VF, nor is there enough room to tilt the camera down to move it away from your eye to do so, esp with that long lens and that support. Sometimes you simply don't want to move the camera when you have it pointing to a hard to find spot in a tree where a rare bird is sitting. A top LCD doesn't require moving the camera, mostly because it's generally more easy to move up than back to look at it.

Of course these are just personal observations... YMMV...

Looking forward to this not yet announced K3-II successor, but apart from keeping up with the evolution in sensor technology the camera doesn't really have to change for me...

Wim

Last edited by Ishpuini; 04-17-2017 at 11:40 PM.
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