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05-25-2017, 11:30 PM   #286
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The NX-1 was a new camera - but Samsung had NX cameras on the market for 4 years, when it was launched. I see no reason to assume others can develop new cameras much faster.

As for Ricoh Imaging... I would not assume the work on a K-3 replacement started immediately after the K-3 (not even K-3 II) was ready. I would not assume it isn't a new camera.

05-26-2017, 03:06 AM   #287
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I think it probably takes four to five years to develop a new camera that is not just an improvement of an existing model. In a fast moving market development must be started even before the launch of the previous model. The trick is to be able to change a lot about the design as the market develops. Right now camera operational speed is the thing. Faster AF, more FPS, because of developments in electronics. Smaller chips that are more powerful. Ricoh has to latch on to that. The successor must have been planned for this year or maybe even last fall. Market slowdown probably got it postponed. Ricoh can use the time to make it a better faster camera .Also because of the K-1 Ricoh had to reconsider it's product line. The KP is the new enthusiast DSLR. So the K-3 II successor must be more pro-like. The k-70 is extremely good value, to get people into the brand. After the initial very competitive pricing of the K-1 it's price is now hitching up to make room for the aps-c body between the K-1 and the KP. (And i hope for a K-1 II at a higher price level with a new AF chip and (even) better noise performance). A big unknown is how long Sony will make the 36mp sensor the K-1 is using. As they seem to have moved to 42mp and the Nikon D820 will probably have a 45mp custom job processor based on the D500 pixels. Ricoh better order them in advance.

QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Not exactly : they learned a lot from their partnership with Hoya/Pentax during 2007-2010 period.
Yeah but before the NX-1 they were really just dabbling. Their sensor tech wasn't good enough. Fooling around with crazy android based camera's. They really started over as a mirrorless camera manufacturer after the break with Pentax.
05-26-2017, 03:42 AM   #288
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I said 3 years because a Samsung official said in an interview that NX-1 took about 3 years. I'm taking it as a minimum; and some technologies could very well take much longer to develop.

Of course there must be some parallel development(or at least pipelining); however as the new APS-C flagship is be a major project, it's not unlikely they would use resources which worked for the K-1.
We know the K-1 took quite a long time, and it's an older project than the K-3 (it was more of a background project made by engineers; much later it was green-lighted by the management). But until 2013 (?) it was prototyping and experimenting, rather than developing with the intention of commercialization.

The K-1 sensor will be available as needed. All Ricoh Imaging needs to do is to order a last batch large enough to cover their needs until the camera is retired; this is so basic I'll consider it a problem already solved.

I think Samsung started working on the NX before breaking the deal with Pentax.
05-28-2017, 03:22 PM   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
I think it probably takes four to five years to develop a new camera that is not just an improvement of an existing model.
If a local Italian pasta restaurant does it, yes, four to five years. In more capable hands used to develop new cameras, a camera based on existing technologies can be developed in about 2 years. Actually in less than that time, but it must be tested. Say, from a good source, Leica T was developed in about ~2 years, and was issued first because the Leica SL, based on the same mount, took longer to test.

Some projects take unnecessarily long time, and no one knows what they mean by x number of years. Nikon claimed 3 years of development for the Nikon Df, which they used to impress, I guess, but which is preposterous; tech inside the Df says it is a hodgepodge of existing stuff that can be done in a few months of lazy work. It most likely means time when they started to toy around with the retro-camera-idea, and then finally gave to someone to design the thing. Because less than three years took them to develop the groundbreaking D3 and its sensor.

Now the other side of the medal; some companies need lots of time. Ricoh Imaging needs it. However, do we think it took them 2 years to advance from the GR to GR2, which is basically the same camera? Not at all. GR2 could be done in a few months work, but that time, since the launch of the original GR, or the original K3 for that matter, is used to buy more time for development of the next bigger step forward which comes after the GR2, or K3II. So when they do GR, they have GR2 almost ready, but work on other stuff. Ricoh Imaging needs more time; they operate on tiny budgets.


Last edited by Uluru; 05-28-2017 at 03:36 PM.
06-04-2017, 11:17 PM - 1 Like   #290
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Is a price around 1700 - 2000 $€ OK for an upper APS-C class than K-3 ll line?
Best regards
06-04-2017, 11:31 PM   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
Is a price around 1700 - 2000 $€ OK for an upper APS-C class than K-3 ll line?
The D500 is too expensive for being still an crop sensor camera. The 7DII is priced more reasonably for high-end apsc camera.
I'd expect a sport oriented Pentax DSLR with a significant AF upgrade at an initial price around $1700 dropping to about $1400 over the years.
IMO, that's what's missing to take full advantage of the DFA150-450.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 06-04-2017 at 11:37 PM.
06-05-2017, 01:42 AM - 1 Like   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
Is a price around 1700 - 2000 $€ OK for an upper APS-C class than K-3 ll line?
It depends if it is a real improvement. It should be able to compete with the D500 then.
06-05-2017, 02:04 AM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I think the D500 is an overkill and too expensive. Recent D7500 is actually less attractive than a K3, except for it's AF but it's not super duper either.
The KP is good for compactness, but the specs aren't as good as the K3 for wildlife.
For most of use shooting wildlife, a camera like the K3 with updated AF module would do it.
The D500 or D7500 are maybe overkill but their AF is truely the best you can have and AF is still the area where Pentax need to improve, so I can't get why D500/D7500 are overkill, at least for Pentax user in particular when you explain you do need better AF as an improvement.

The thing is whatever the price, pentax doesn't have it. That look more annoying than just buy a D7500 or D500 and be done. And there anything K3/K3-II or KP has that would make a wildlife user prefer theses to a D7500 if a got to try them both and choose.

06-05-2017, 02:59 AM   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
The thing is whatever the price, pentax doesn't have it.
Scary!
06-05-2017, 03:27 AM - 3 Likes   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The D500 is too expensive for being still an crop sensor camera. The 7DII is priced more reasonably for high-end apsc camera.
I'd expect a sport oriented Pentax DSLR with a significant AF upgrade at an initial price around $1700 dropping to about $1400 over the years.
IMO, that's what's missing to take full advantage of the DFA150-450.
One lens???? Nikon and Canon have scores of good modern lenses with Sigma, Tamron in the game as well.

This yearning for Pentax to compete in the high-quality AF come sports sector is a fantasy. Pentax have never been in that sector. They don't have the know-how, the equipment, the third-party support or the brand image. The marketing alone to establish themselves as a sports brand would probably exceed their entire spend for the last five years. Prepare for disappointment if that's the expectation. If Pentax produce anything to sit above the KP, I am sure it will be an excellent all-rounder as their other cameras in the flagship line have been. But it won't be a D500 or 7D Mk II killer nor designed to be. Pentax offer high-quality all-round cameras of a classic kind with in some models the accent on a "land and field" camera for the great outdoors. That is what they are known for and are good at. Cherish them for that. I am sure they won't mind if someone also runs a D500 or 7D Mk II for the sporty stuff.
06-05-2017, 03:52 AM   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
The marketing alone to establish themselves as a sports brand would probably exceed their entire spend for the last five years.
I agree with you. Although they don't need to be known a sport camera brand to sell a new camera model that performs visibly better than the current camera lines. I don't mind if it's not exactly as fast as a D500, that's rather what Nicolas is commenting on.
06-05-2017, 05:15 AM   #297
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Yes, but....

QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
Is a price around 1700 - 2000 $ OK for an upper APS-C class than K-3 ll line?
Best regards
For that $$ ring:
More focus points, faster AF and CPU processing
~32-36MP on the sensor
Include the battery pack, or build it to hold 2 LI90s without one...
WiFi
GPS
Perfect gaskets
2 eyecups (0x and 1.5x)2 SD slots
Build ARCA Swiss grooves in the base or Battery pack

06-05-2017, 05:30 AM   #298
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Lots of people saying that Pentax isn't sports oriented, or something around those lines, and that is why they don't invest in proper AF.
But they launched the 150-450 and the 70-200.
Those don't look like landscape lenses (moonscape maybe), so why would Pentax be making sports lenses if they're not interested in that market?
If that idea of "Pentax not a sports camera maker" is correct, then they're just a carrot for those that want a sporty Pentax, to keep them buying in instead of out.
Hopefully they're just part of a plan that could shut up the naysayers.
06-05-2017, 05:58 AM - 2 Likes   #299
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IMHO We need....

QuoteOriginally posted by dafbp Quote
Lots of people saying that Pentax isn't sports oriented, or something around those lines, and that is why they don't invest in proper AF.
But they launched the 150-450 and the 70-200.
Those don't look like landscape lenses (moonscape maybe), so why would Pentax be making sports lenses if they're not interested in that market?
If that idea of "Pentax not a sports camera maker" is correct, then they're just a carrot for those that want a sporty Pentax, to keep them buying in instead of out.
Hopefully they're just part of a plan that could shut up the naysayers.
A few lenses to round out the K-1 and the APSc line:

85mm F1.4
300mm F2.8
400mm F4ish
HDTC 2x to work with the Above...
200mm Macro (F4)
Refresh on Limiteds,
Nice to Have: 135mm F2.8, F2 would be better
06-05-2017, 07:05 AM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
A few lenses to round out the K-1 and the APSc line:

85mm F1.4
300mm F2.8
400mm F4ish
HDTC 2x to work with the Above...
200mm Macro (F4)
Refresh on Limiteds,
Nice to Have: 135mm F2.8, F2 would be better
200 mm macro is a must develop indeed
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