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04-03-2017, 10:45 AM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by The Squirrel Mafia Quote
^ Indeed!

I have been waiting for this camera since early last year. I normally never pay the "early adopter fee", but this camera might be the only exception *if* it delivers the goods.

Going back to the original post in this thread, if everything goes according to what Les Numeriques said, we should know/have something by the end of August this year if we base it on the KP release date. As long as we know/have something at least by the end of the year, I'll be happy with that.

I'm hoping that Pentax is either putting all the finishing touches into this camera or already putting it into production as we type.
That's the reason I picked up another KS2 to go with the one I had. If I'm going to opt for a new body I'll hold out the the K3II successor assuming it's the improvement we're expecting it would be. If I didn't have a Pentax at all, or a relatively old one, I would jump on the K70. Talk about a value camera! The KP just doesn't look like the "it" replacement for what I already have.


Last edited by gatorguy; 04-03-2017 at 12:53 PM.
04-03-2017, 11:41 AM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
The Samsung NX-1 with 28mp sensor can shoot 15fps raw. The 24mp sony imx271 which is probably in the KP and K-70 can potentially shoot 19fps. Electronics are not the problem anymore as long as you choose the right setup. Cost deliberations and the problems 19fps mirror and shutter actuations present probably more so. It can be done, but at what price? You also need AF to keep up with the burst speed.
I wonder what the odds are that a K-3 II successor might come with a Samsung BSI CMOS sensor. To my knowledge, none of the APS-C sensors currently on the market are backside illuminated. I imagine with Pentax's processing, it would make excellent use of Samsung's sensors.
04-03-2017, 07:35 PM   #108
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Lower noise/better DR, slightly deeper buffer, improved AF and I'm ready to go. One of my K3 bodies has 215k shots on the shutter now so I'm keen for the replacement.
04-03-2017, 07:42 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by distudio Quote
Lower noise/better DR, slightly deeper buffer, improved AF and I'm ready to go. One of my K3 bodies has 215k shots on the shutter now so I'm keen for the replacement.
Man, you really crank out the images.

04-03-2017, 08:06 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Man, you really crank out the images.
Yep, my cameras get a hammering, haven't checked my K5iis lately but it's probably around 150k now, I have more trust in that than the K3 to be honest, my back-up K3 has only about 6500 shots on it.
04-04-2017, 05:56 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by distudio Quote
Yep, my cameras get a hammering, haven't checked my K5iis lately but it's probably around 150k now, I have more trust in that than the K3 to be honest, my back-up K3 has only about 6500 shots on it.
I kept my K-5 until I got a K-1. I love the K-3 for birding and I can easily shoot 400-800 images out doing wildlife, not so muchforother things. However my K-5 was definitely the backup.
04-04-2017, 07:56 AM - 2 Likes   #112
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I've just noticed that the status of the K-3 II has changed to "While stocks last - Out of production"* at Map Camera, which tends to be accurate. This applies to the body kit and the 16-85 kit. I mentioned something similar about Yodobashi Camera a couple of months ago, and it turned out to be just that one chain. In fact that remains the case; Yodobashi has not been selling the K-3 II since then, but other shops continued to do so. Now we have another one that is listing it out of production.

*Japanese text 在庫限り(生産完了品)
04-04-2017, 11:57 AM - 2 Likes   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
SAFOX is a design by Pentax, so they could turn that out. I do think that will be around Photokina 2018. Most of the progressief is probably coming from the processor inside the camera and that will have a new generation maybe end next year to use in 2019.
Engineering opinion among developers is that CPU isn't a bottleneck, it is the sensor signal acquisition that is much slower than the capability of a CPU (sensor acquisition time is in the mS range, CPU processing is done in a few uS), even a small low power CPU such as ARM based controllers (Socionext purchased ARM sometimes ago). It shows two things: 1) current Pentax phase detect sensor and collimator are too small to provide -3ev sensitivity and high number of AF points... with the current Safox as it is, it's either -3ev or more points with even slower AF. Basically, the modules used in the 7DII, D500 and fast AF camera (mirrorless excluded) are significantly larger than the Pentax module, and 7DII and D500 are about the size of a full frame DSLR of the same brands (guess why current DSLR are all larger than former film SLR..). C & N designed their AF module for full frame bodies and then made it into a aps camera, Ricoh Safox was never sized for full frame, Ricoh used the K3 module into the K1, exactly the same as Canon did with the 5D and 5DII: reuse of aps sized module of the 20D. IMO, Ricoh need both to re-engineer their AF sensor into a larger one to fit into a larger cavity, re-work the processing that goes with it, basically a complete redesign , or you won't see anything but tiny improvement (which was the case for the last 10 years). Then, we won't see small and fast AF Pentax DSLRs, fast and small is reserved to mirrorless with phase sensor on the image sensor itself.

---------- Post added 04-04-17 at 21:17 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Tatouzou Quote
Experienced photographers already shot sports and birds in fly in the film era, even before AF was available.
That's true. Someone posted a video link of a interview of a photographer having done photographs of aeroplanes in flight with a film camera remote controlled (without Wifi) here Shooting the Red Arrows in '77 with film - PentaxForums.com

I found the photographs to be the best I've ever seen, better than anything I've seen taken with recent fast AF DSLR.

---------- Post added 04-04-17 at 21:28 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by distudio Quote
Lower noise/better DR, slightly deeper buffer, improved AF and I'm ready to go. One of my K3 bodies has 215k shots on the shutter now so I'm keen for the replacement.
Perhaps should take your K3 for a revision at the mechanics to tighten the bolts of the shutter curtain, or you risk having the k mount spit it out with springs at one of you next shots
Bad news is if you exceed the max shutter count given by Ricoh, you can't ask for a refund in case of shutter block failure


Last edited by biz-engineer; 04-04-2017 at 12:10 PM.
04-04-2017, 12:46 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by adjutant Quote
I wonder what the odds are that a K-3 II successor might come with a Samsung BSI CMOS sensor. To my knowledge, none of the APS-C sensors currently on the market are backside illuminated. I imagine with Pentax's processing, it would make excellent use of Samsung's sensors.
I'd say the odds are slim-to-none. Samsung doesn't appear to be listing any APS-C BSI sensors in their available products, just smaller sensors for phones and industry. I can't find any announcements from them for any APS-C sensor since 2014 (the 28MP that went into the NX1). If no one else has used Samsung APS-C sensors in a couple years (not even Samsung), then it seems highly unlikely Pentax would pay Samsung to make a small batch just for them - not when Sony sensors are familiar to the engineers and probably less expensive due to economies of scale.
04-04-2017, 06:59 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I've just noticed that the status of the K-3 II has changed to "While stocks last - Out of production"* at Map Camera, which tends to be accurate. This applies to the body kit and the 16-85 kit. I mentioned something similar about Yodobashi Camera a couple of months ago, and it turned out to be just that one chain. In fact that remains the case; Yodobashi has not been selling the K-3 II since then, but other shops continued to do so. Now we have another one that is listing it out of production.

*Japanese text 在庫限り(生産完了品)
That make a lot of sense, announcement coming.... as per the first message from OP. I see it coming in june-august time frame
04-05-2017, 01:48 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Engineering opinion among developers is that CPU isn't a bottleneck, it is the sensor signal acquisition that is much slower than the capability of a CPU (sensor acquisition time is in the mS range, CPU processing is done in a few uS), even a small low power CPU such as ARM based controllers (Socionext purchased ARM sometimes ago). It shows two things: 1) current Pentax phase detect sensor and collimator are too small to provide -3ev sensitivity and high number of AF points... with the current Safox as it is, it's either -3ev or more points with even slower AF. Basically, the modules used in the 7DII, D500 and fast AF camera (mirrorless excluded) are significantly larger than the Pentax module, and 7DII and D500 are about the size of a full frame DSLR of the same brands (guess why current DSLR are all larger than former film SLR..). C & N designed their AF module for full frame bodies and then made it into a aps camera, Ricoh Safox was never sized for full frame, Ricoh used the K3 module into the K1, exactly the same as Canon did with the 5D and 5DII: reuse of aps sized module of the 20D. IMO, Ricoh need both to re-engineer their AF sensor into a larger one to fit into a larger cavity, re-work the processing that goes with it, basically a complete redesign , or you won't see anything but tiny improvement (which was the case for the last 10 years). Then, we won't see small and fast AF Pentax DSLRs, fast and small is reserved to mirrorless with phase sensor on the image sensor itself.
That would mean making a new larger af-module for just the follower of K-3ii, K-1 and 645Z. Since all lower models would benefit from being smaller in body. That are low numbers in unit sales to get your invested r&d money back.
04-05-2017, 06:20 AM   #117
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May be better odds than expected...

QuoteOriginally posted by adjutant Quote
I wonder what the odds are that a K-3 II successor might come with a Samsung BSI CMOS sensor. To my knowledge, none of the APS-C sensors currently on the market are backside illuminated. I imagine with Pentax's processing, it would make excellent use of Samsung's sensors.
Based on the withdrawal of NX-1 and the lack of lens expansion (in parallel), AND the strategic issues in the Mobile phone division, I suspect the following, IMHO...

  1. Samsung follows Motorola with a similar to Hassy (add on camera and multiple battery solutions), in order to isolate "risk" in their phone production.
  2. Based on their prior successes (or non-successes GX,NX) in DSLR/ Photo, they could re-engage with Pentax, and cut a deal for the buckets of unused 28mp NX-1 sensors that were made and not used in production.
  3. Samsung would be in a good place to work with Pentax on MILC and compacts (including WG), more toward their market heft.
  4. Watch for mergers with Pentax and Olympus and Leica. but neither would bring a K-3III more synergies than the undeployed Samsung sensor inventory... IMHO
04-05-2017, 07:08 AM - 3 Likes   #118
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Yikes! Please, no, never ever ever.
04-05-2017, 07:12 AM - 2 Likes   #119
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What Samsung undeployed sensor inventory? Why would Samsung make many more sensors than required?
It makes no sense. And it makes no sense for a small player like Pentax to pay for a custom sensor development (you're thinking of one sensor, but what's the next step? And the next? And the next?)

Looking at the KP - why would you want a Samsung sensor anyway?
04-05-2017, 09:06 AM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I've just noticed that the status of the K-3 II has changed to "While stocks last - Out of production"* at Map Camera, which tends to be accurate. This applies to the body kit and the 16-85 kit. I mentioned something similar about Yodobashi Camera a couple of months ago, and it turned out to be just that one chain. In fact that remains the case; Yodobashi has not been selling the K-3 II since then, but other shops continued to do so. Now we have another one that is listing it out of production.

*Japanese text 在庫限り(生産完了品)
QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
That make a lot of sense, announcement coming.... as per the first message from OP. I see it coming in june-august time frame
So more than likely it will be coming soon!

Knowing Pentax, we're probably not going to know anything about it until a few days before release. Pentax seems to control internal "leaks" very well.
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