Seven months before the successor of the K3II?

Kunzite · 06-14-2017, 03:21 AM - **1 Like**

Actually we could get an idea of what will happen by a. listening to the camera maker and b. considering the exact opposite of those doom and gloom posts.

Fact: the other brands can sell a crop camera for as much as $2000. Fact #2: the K-3 II was launched for $1100.
The K-3 II's replacement will be somewhere in between... we would be able to guess after the first leaks about its specifications, if the price won't be leaked first (quite likely IMO).

If the DSLR market will fade (nowhere with the speed MILC fans are dreaming of, since a decade ago) then the moment of launching a high-end APS-C DSLR is asap.

The KP is not the APS-C flagship. Ricoh Imaging is "researching" i.e. working on a K-3 II successor.

Mirrorless is less relevant than its fans want us to believe.

Uluru · 06-14-2017, 03:45 AM

Market tells there is no clever winning strategy and things move this or that direction. Who really cares anyway. But if the product is good, people will buy, because people interested in photography have no distinct bias toward this or that — they buy that which delivers great image quality at an affordable price.

In addition, what markets really needs, and will reward, is the innovation that gives extra quality, and I think Pentax can deliver there. K-1 is old school DSLR, but it impresses people, and they buy it. It sells really good. So if the K3Mk3 delivers innovation, and bridges the gap between the DSLR and Mirrorless for example, it will sell because it gives extra quality never seen before.
Innovation takes time; Nikon does not innovate. They release camera after camera and all are same. But Pentax innovates, and they require more time. But it is worth waiting for.

I dare say, K3Mk3 will be a game changer for Pentax. More innovations in it than in K-1, that is almost certain. It will not sell in millions, but it will enrich the market with ideas never seen before, and smart people will appreciate. For Pentax, it will be a new platform to build future models. That is all what is needed.

Also watch for the new GRs (plural).

Reed · 06-14-2017, 03:55 AM

Mr.Tanaka hinted some time ago on his blog that K-3 sucessor is close to commercialization, I would expect some announcment from Ricoh soon, within next few weeks. I think they are now waiting for Canon to launch their newest DSLR's, that might happen till the end of june, and then Ricoh will do their move.
Of course its only my speculation on that case.

D1N0 · 06-14-2017, 04:18 AM

It would be nice to see a K-3 successor soon. The K-3 II sensor is now marching behind the troops (apart from pixel shift images) and a tilting screen is sorely needed and of course AF, always AF. A new touch interface (preferably optional) would also be nice. Video will always lag with Pentax, so no high hopes there.

**ffking** · 06-14-2017, 04:24 AM - **2 Likes**

You know, we do often underestimate Pentax - we focus so much on the areas where they are less good that we forget, for example, that when the K-3 was released, 8.3 fps was right up there - they've got some good engineers, and they like to come up with surprises.

normhead · 06-14-2017, 05:09 AM

Originally posted by ffking

You know, we do often underestimate Pentax - we focus so much on the areas where they are less good that we forget, for example, that when the K-3 was released, 8.3 fps was right up there - they've got some good engineers, and they like to come up with surprises.

My thinking exactly. People forget that things like pixel shift and SR are among the features that Pentax have championed are still unmatched by many. They may come out with something we thought of first, they may completely surprise us.

Given the release of the KP I', expecting the K-1 AF system filling a lot more of the APS-c viewfinder than the current one does, maybe going right to the edges and 10 FPS along with a more mature release of the new tracking algorithms, and the addition of the new secondary imaging processing chip.

Despite Sony coming our with the A9 an image every .05 seconds, I'm convinced an image every .1 second would be just as good, at a much cheaper cost.

mecrox · 06-14-2017, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by Uluru

Market tells there is no clever winning strategy and things move this or that direction. Who really cares anyway. But if the product is good, people will buy, because people interested in photography have no distinct bias toward this or that — they buy that which delivers great image quality at an affordable price.

In addition, what markets really needs, and will reward, is the innovation that gives extra quality, and I think Pentax can deliver there. K-1 is old school DSLR, but it impresses people, and they buy it. It sells really good. So if the K3Mk3 delivers innovation, and bridges the gap between the DSLR and Mirrorless for example, it will sell because it gives extra quality never seen before.
Innovation takes time; Nikon does not innovate. They release camera after camera and all are same. But Pentax innovates, and they require more time. But it is worth waiting for.

I dare say, K3Mk3 will be a game changer for Pentax. More innovations in it than in K-1, that is almost certain. It will not sell in millions, but it will enrich the market with ideas never seen before, and smart people will appreciate. For Pentax, it will be a new platform to build future models. That is all what is needed.

Also watch for the new GRs (plural).

Very good points but sadly I don't think it matters. With no marketing to speak of and only a tiny share at retail, nothing Pentax does is really noticed all that much by the broad mass of folks. Yes, Pentax will no doubt make an extremely good all-rounder camera if they do issue a new APS-C DSLR flagship model. It will be politely noticed in a few places, not noticed at all in many places, and it still won't sell except to folks who already own Pentax camera equipment bar a few stray cases. Pentax already have IBIS, pixel-shift, astro-tracer and much else, but these things haven't shifted their position at all. Adding yet more things, no matter how clever, isn't really likely to put them on the radar. Somehow, Pentax need to escape Ricoh's embalming tank and not stop running until they are far, far away. A brazen break-out in the style of Inky the Octopus.

Last edited by mecrox; 06-14-2017 at 05:53 AM.

Kunzite · 06-14-2017, 06:03 AM

Wrong.

Your post can be read as "PentaxIsDoomedTM no matter what".
We know as a fact that Pentax-under-Ricoh can get new customers, the K-1 did exactly that. We have a tread about this, though for some reason it become about how mirrorless will rule the world and why we should all buy Sony

"Escaping" Ricoh is a very bad idea IMO. Because Ricoh is not a bad owner (except for not having tons of money to spend on Pentax), the alternatives might be worse and ownership changes are disruptive.
Besides, there's no Pentax division... it's a brand used by several Ricoh divisions (including Ricoh Imaging). What would "escape" Ricoh?

normhead · 06-14-2017, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by mecrox

Very good points but sadly I don't think it matters. With no marketing to speak of and only a tiny share at retail, nothing Pentax does is really noticed all that much by the broad mass of folks. Yes, Pentax will no doubt make an extremely good all-rounder camera if they do issue a new APS-C DSLR flagship model. It will be politely noticed in a few places, not noticed at all in many places, and it still won't sell except to folks who already own Pentax camera equipment bar a few stray cases. Pentax already have IBIS, pixel-shift, astro-tracer and much else, but these things haven't shifted their position at all. Adding yet more things, no matter how clever, isn't really likely to put them on the radar. Somehow, Pentax need to escape Ricoh's embalming tank and not stop running until they are far, far away. A brazen break-out in the style of Inky the Octopus.

Ricoh would hunt them down.
Pentax has clearly moved away form the concept of competing in the entry level market and is going high end. They tossed in the 28-105 for us ket lens shooters, but all their new lenses, 70-200, 24-70, 15-30 150-450 are premium lenses. They made the 55-300 to go with the KP and K-70 and updated their kit lens, but most of the new stuff is in APS-c is updates of existing lenses. Their focus seems to be to go the way of the 645z. Premium gear at premium prices. Even the KP is a premium cost body, only with much less capability than say a D7200.

I think those of who got into Pentax as a "good enough" alternative to more capable systems Are going to have a few lean years, based on the current lens road map. The current roadmap does not point to Pentax becoming a large market share company.

Kunzite · 06-14-2017, 06:15 AM

I'd say the KP is Pentax' Df, but APS-C - and better designed

normhead · 06-14-2017, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

I'd say the KP is Pentax' Df, but APS-C - and better designed

That could certainly be true.

To be big in market share, you have have D3300, Canon Rebel type bodies. Cheap plastic body type cameras to compete on price. Buy into the brand type products. I don't think Pentax is into that kind of product.

distudio · 06-14-2017, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

We know as a fact that Pentax-under-Ricoh can get new customers, the K-1 did exactly that.

I know personally it lost quite a few too, me for one. I also held out for an upgrade to the K3 but I have to work and Pentax are just too slow to market.

Kunzite · 06-14-2017, 06:43 AM

I doubt there's any brand who keeps all their customers.
Let's note that something Pentax@Ricoh did - the K-1 - directly addressed a situation similar to yours, losing customers because a FF was not available.

**ffking** · 06-14-2017, 06:48 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

We have a tread about this, though for some reason it become about how mirrorless will rule the world and why we should all buy Sony

too true, sadly

distudio · 06-14-2017, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

I doubt there's any brand who keeps all their customers.
Let's note that something Pentax@Ricoh did - the K-1 - directly addressed a situation similar to yours, losing customers because a FF was not available.

They did bring out a FF but that's what drove me elsewhere as it wasn't a fit for my needs and this is after being loyal to K-mount for about 33 years. Eventually the donkey works out that the carrot is always that little bit out of reach and gives up.

That said I still have a major investment in Pentax gear that I will continue to work with but my extensive K-mount kit will be sold off.

06-14-2017, 06:03 AM	#339
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by mecrox Very good points but sadly I don't think it matters. With no marketing to speak of and only a tiny share at retail, nothing Pentax does is really noticed all that much by the broad mass of folks. Yes, Pentax will no doubt make an extremely good all-rounder camera if they do issue a new APS-C DSLR flagship model. It will be politely noticed in a few places, not noticed at all in many places, and it still won't sell except to folks who already own Pentax camera equipment bar a few stray cases. Pentax already have IBIS, pixel-shift, astro-tracer and much else, but these things haven't shifted their position at all. Adding yet more things, no matter how clever, isn't really likely to put them on the radar. Somehow, Pentax need to escape Ricoh's embalming tank and not stop running until they are far, far away. A brazen break-out in the style of Inky the Octopus. Ricoh would hunt them down. Pentax has clearly moved away form the concept of competing in the entry level market and is going high end. They tossed in the 28-105 for us ket lens shooters, but all their new lenses, 70-200, 24-70, 15-30 150-450 are premium lenses. They made the 55-300 to go with the KP and K-70 and updated their kit lens, but most of the new stuff is in APS-c is updates of existing lenses. Their focus seems to be to go the way of the 645z. Premium gear at premium prices. Even the KP is a premium cost body, only with much less capability than say a D7200. I think those of who got into Pentax as a "good enough" alternative to more capable systems Are going to have a few lean years, based on the current lens road map. The current roadmap does not point to Pentax becoming a large market share company. Last edited by normhead; 06-14-2017 at 06:10 AM.

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06-14-2017, 03:21 AM - 1 Like	#331
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Actually we could get an idea of what will happen by a. listening to the camera maker and b. considering the exact opposite of those doom and gloom posts. Fact: the other brands can sell a crop camera for as much as $2000. Fact #2: the K-3 II was launched for $1100. The K-3 II's replacement will be somewhere in between... we would be able to guess after the first leaks about its specifications, if the price won't be leaked first (quite likely IMO). If the DSLR market will fade (nowhere with the speed MILC fans are dreaming of, since a decade ago) then the moment of launching a high-end APS-C DSLR is asap. The KP is not the APS-C flagship. Ricoh Imaging is "researching" i.e. working on a K-3 II successor. Mirrorless is less relevant than its fans want us to believe.

06-14-2017, 03:45 AM	#332
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Market tells there is no clever winning strategy and things move this or that direction. Who really cares anyway. But if the product is good, people will buy, because people interested in photography have no distinct bias toward this or that — they buy that which delivers great image quality at an affordable price. In addition, what markets really needs, and will reward, is the innovation that gives extra quality, and I think Pentax can deliver there. K-1 is old school DSLR, but it impresses people, and they buy it. It sells really good. So if the K3Mk3 delivers innovation, and bridges the gap between the DSLR and Mirrorless for example, it will sell because it gives extra quality never seen before. Innovation takes time; Nikon does not innovate. They release camera after camera and all are same. But Pentax innovates, and they require more time. But it is worth waiting for. I dare say, K3Mk3 will be a game changer for Pentax. More innovations in it than in K-1, that is almost certain. It will not sell in millions, but it will enrich the market with ideas never seen before, and smart people will appreciate. For Pentax, it will be a new platform to build future models. That is all what is needed. Also watch for the new GRs (plural).

06-14-2017, 03:55 AM	#333
Reed Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Warsaw Photos: Gallery Posts: 638	Mr.Tanaka hinted some time ago on his blog that K-3 sucessor is close to commercialization, I would expect some announcment from Ricoh soon, within next few weeks. I think they are now waiting for Canon to launch their newest DSLR's, that might happen till the end of june, and then Ricoh will do their move. Of course its only my speculation on that case.

06-14-2017, 04:18 AM	#334
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	It would be nice to see a K-3 successor soon. The K-3 II sensor is now marching behind the troops (apart from pixel shift images) and a tilting screen is sorely needed and of course AF, always AF. A new touch interface (preferably optional) would also be nice. Video will always lag with Pentax, so no high hopes there.

06-14-2017, 04:24 AM - 2 Likes	#335
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	You know, we do often underestimate Pentax - we focus so much on the areas where they are less good that we forget, for example, that when the K-3 was released, 8.3 fps was right up there - they've got some good engineers, and they like to come up with surprises.

06-14-2017, 05:09 AM	#336
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by ffking You know, we do often underestimate Pentax - we focus so much on the areas where they are less good that we forget, for example, that when the K-3 was released, 8.3 fps was right up there - they've got some good engineers, and they like to come up with surprises. My thinking exactly. People forget that things like pixel shift and SR are among the features that Pentax have championed are still unmatched by many. They may come out with something we thought of first, they may completely surprise us. Given the release of the KP I', expecting the K-1 AF system filling a lot more of the APS-c viewfinder than the current one does, maybe going right to the edges and 10 FPS along with a more mature release of the new tracking algorithms, and the addition of the new secondary imaging processing chip. Despite Sony coming our with the A9 an image every .05 seconds, I'm convinced an image every .1 second would be just as good, at a much cheaper cost.

06-14-2017, 05:44 AM	#337
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by Uluru Market tells there is no clever winning strategy and things move this or that direction. Who really cares anyway. But if the product is good, people will buy, because people interested in photography have no distinct bias toward this or that — they buy that which delivers great image quality at an affordable price. In addition, what markets really needs, and will reward, is the innovation that gives extra quality, and I think Pentax can deliver there. K-1 is old school DSLR, but it impresses people, and they buy it. It sells really good. So if the K3Mk3 delivers innovation, and bridges the gap between the DSLR and Mirrorless for example, it will sell because it gives extra quality never seen before. Innovation takes time; Nikon does not innovate. They release camera after camera and all are same. But Pentax innovates, and they require more time. But it is worth waiting for. I dare say, K3Mk3 will be a game changer for Pentax. More innovations in it than in K-1, that is almost certain. It will not sell in millions, but it will enrich the market with ideas never seen before, and smart people will appreciate. For Pentax, it will be a new platform to build future models. That is all what is needed. Also watch for the new GRs (plural). Very good points but sadly I don't think it matters. With no marketing to speak of and only a tiny share at retail, nothing Pentax does is really noticed all that much by the broad mass of folks. Yes, Pentax will no doubt make an extremely good all-rounder camera if they do issue a new APS-C DSLR flagship model. It will be politely noticed in a few places, not noticed at all in many places, and it still won't sell except to folks who already own Pentax camera equipment bar a few stray cases. Pentax already have IBIS, pixel-shift, astro-tracer and much else, but these things haven't shifted their position at all. Adding yet more things, no matter how clever, isn't really likely to put them on the radar. Somehow, Pentax need to escape Ricoh's embalming tank and not stop running until they are far, far away. A brazen break-out in the style of Inky the Octopus. Last edited by mecrox; 06-14-2017 at 05:53 AM.

06-14-2017, 06:03 AM	#338
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Wrong. Your post can be read as "PentaxIsDoomedTM no matter what". We know as a fact that Pentax-under-Ricoh can get new customers, the K-1 did exactly that. We have a tread about this, though for some reason it become about how mirrorless will rule the world and why we should all buy Sony "Escaping" Ricoh is a very bad idea IMO. Because Ricoh is not a bad owner (except for not having tons of money to spend on Pentax), the alternatives might be worse and ownership changes are disruptive. Besides, there's no Pentax division... it's a brand used by several Ricoh divisions (including Ricoh Imaging). What would "escape" Ricoh?

06-14-2017, 06:15 AM	#340
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I'd say the KP is Pentax' Df, but APS-C - and better designed

06-14-2017, 06:16 AM	#341
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Kunzite I'd say the KP is Pentax' Df, but APS-C - and better designed That could certainly be true. To be big in market share, you have have D3300, Canon Rebel type bodies. Cheap plastic body type cameras to compete on price. Buy into the brand type products. I don't think Pentax is into that kind of product.

06-14-2017, 06:27 AM	#342
distudio Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 450	Originally posted by Kunzite We know as a fact that Pentax-under-Ricoh can get new customers, the K-1 did exactly that. I know personally it lost quite a few too, me for one. I also held out for an upgrade to the K3 but I have to work and Pentax are just too slow to market.

06-14-2017, 06:43 AM	#343
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I doubt there's any brand who keeps all their customers. Let's note that something Pentax@Ricoh did - the K-1 - directly addressed a situation similar to yours, losing customers because a FF was not available.

06-14-2017, 06:48 AM	#344
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by Kunzite We have a tread about this, though for some reason it become about how mirrorless will rule the world and why we should all buy Sony too true, sadly

06-14-2017, 07:05 AM	#345
distudio Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 450	Originally posted by Kunzite I doubt there's any brand who keeps all their customers. Let's note that something Pentax@Ricoh did - the K-1 - directly addressed a situation similar to yours, losing customers because a FF was not available. They did bring out a FF but that's what drove me elsewhere as it wasn't a fit for my needs and this is after being loyal to K-mount for about 33 years. Eventually the donkey works out that the carrot is always that little bit out of reach and gives up. That said I still have a major investment in Pentax gear that I will continue to work with but my extensive K-mount kit will be sold off.