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08-06-2008, 09:36 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Funny nobody realized the possibility of a K mount to Micro-FourThirds Adapter.

They already announced a FourThirds to Micro-FourThirds Adapter and a K mount to Micro-FourThirds Adapter would be a relatively easy thing to do.

All DA lenses would become available for this compact type of camera. A welcomed option.
K mount lenses are not completely electronic... The aperture and af are mechanically controlled by the body, except for AF in SDM.

08-06-2008, 11:02 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
He also said Pentax would not play in the low end of the market but the rumors seem to indicate that is exactly what they are going to do. Not to get off topic but Ned has shown me nothing so far. It appears he is stuck in the past as badly as Pentax engineering is. Oly is pushing forward with innovative small cameras, Sony is implementing LV better than anybody else, and Nikon keeps coming out with state of the art equipment. Pentax? Lucky thing Samsung bailed them out with the K20D sensor or their sales slogan would be "Last years innovations implemented badly at higher prices".
also said not long back no FF and we know that's coming, my guess is all the manufacturers will be watching oly to see how sales go. if it does even ok they will decide that it is a piece of the market they should have, much like what is happening with FF.
08-06-2008, 11:33 PM   #33
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An open format?

QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Now that Olympus/Panasonic have pretty much announced my dream system does anyone think there's a chance Pentax will compete in that market? I hope they do because the thought of DA limited quality lenses on a DA Limited body makes me drool.

However, if Pentax makes no announcement in 6 months or so I'm afraid I'll have to jumpy ship to Oly/Pan as soon as the first body is released. The only question is whether or not I will keep my K10D or sell it to buy a few lenses to go along with the Micro 4/3's body. I'd like to have both, because I really do enjoy using my SLR when I feel like carrying a back pack full of gear; the only problem is I rarely feel like doing that. I fully expect current DSLR image quality to be well above the new 4/3'system, but it just goes back to mentality that lower quality pics are better than no pics at all. And I know full well that I'd use the micro 4/3's camera 95% of the time just due to convenience. I simply don't know if I can justify keeping $1000 worth of photo gear that I only use 5% of the time.
For me, this new format might be something that I add to my current lineup, for those occasions when I'd want to go light and quiet (no mirror slap), just as many folks use rangefinders and still keep their slr's for the appropriate occasions. There is much to recommend the K20D as an slr, particularly with the new CMOS sensor. Good luck to Olympus for pushing the boundaries and giving us new choices.
08-07-2008, 12:12 AM   #34
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Olympus was pretty successful with their halfframes a couple of decades ago. And isn't the 4/3s format just half of full frame? This is history repeating itself hehehe

As DSLRs get bigger, people are starting to look for simple high quality complementary equipment for fun and convenience. This is an excellent move marketing/positioning-wise.

Kudos to Olympus and Panasonic.

08-07-2008, 12:24 AM   #35
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frankly I like Oly's bold move on innovation, but I just don't like Oly develop a new lens system base on micro 4/3, and i see the need of using a mFT flange adapter for normal 4/3 lens could be solved somehow. So that the existing user can use back their own lens without the adapter.

here is my proposal, just put a built-in "flange adaptation lens element" between the lens & sensor, which able to adjust the flange according to the focal length of particular lens, so any existing Pentax lens will be able to use on this slim body. I don't know if feasible or not... all the engineering guru out there please advice.

This will be my ideal "everyday" camera:
Attached Images
   

Last edited by take; 08-07-2008 at 01:31 AM.
08-07-2008, 01:12 AM   #36
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Take.. why on Earth does that mockup camera have a "Super CCD" logo on it?
08-07-2008, 01:23 AM   #37
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@ take...

That's certainly an interesting concept you've put together, but I personally hate the idea of intermediate optics. Any optical element the light passes through that wasn't part of the original image design is going to introduce any number of artifacts, none of them desirable.

As for the micro 4/3 format, I think it is a good idea and I applaud Panasonic and Oly for the innovation. The idea has much to like, and if they produce the right equipment, they could get quite a following. I fully expect Leica to jump in with both feet in a way they never did for regular 4/3, and if they develop a strong lineup of small primes (especially fast primes) they could finally offer an affordable "digital Leica" to the consumers priced out of the M8. Their survival as a company may, in fact, depend on such a move.

My only concern is that of heat on the sensor and battery life with nothing but live view. I'd be interested to see if the format is open enough to allow for rangefinder coupling to be built in to the lenses that Leica makes, to see if a true DRF could be made in the format. That would solve these concerns.

As for Pentax, I hope this lights a fire under them to bring that 15mm DA limited to market, and to consider more DA Limiteds, like a 10mm. Truth be told, a k20d with a full set of Limiteds is exactly the sort of thing you could throw in a small bag and take anywhere, and more than any other manufacturer, I think Pentax controls a niche that is threatened by this new format. But I don't see a new Pentax format as being the answer, because Pentax's bodies are plenty small as it is (and we all know a smaller one is around the corner), and the DA Limiteds are definitely about as small as I'd expect any of these new M43 lenses to be.

Interesting stuff.
08-07-2008, 01:55 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by ftpaddict Quote
Take.. why on Earth does that mockup camera have a "Super CCD" logo on it?
Ha, that was my 2007 version of compact digital body, samsung 14MP CMOS not yet announce... I just bring it out for discussion, hope u don't mind, Fujifilm still produce the best sensor.

08-07-2008, 02:00 AM   #39
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"My only concern is that of heat on the sensor and battery life with nothing but live view. I'd be interested to see if the format is open enough to allow for rangefinder coupling to be built in to the lenses that Leica makes, to see if a true DRF could be made in the format. That would solve these concerns."

Yes. My thoughts exactly. I'm excited to see the first prototypes.

There is a huge market out there just waiting for a reasonably priced digital alternative to the M8.
08-07-2008, 02:36 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by jake.astig Quote
There is a huge market out there just waiting for a reasonably priced digital alternative to the M8.
My assumption has grown to being that at least as many people want a rangefinder as use rangefinders. They're extremely inviting yet prohibitively expensive.
08-07-2008, 02:40 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by take Quote
frankly I like Oly's bold move on innovation, but I just don't like Oly develop a new lens system base on micro 4/3, and i see the need of using a mFT flange adapter for normal 4/3 lens could be solved somehow. So that the existing user can use back their own lens without the adapter.
If you read the release you will see that Olympus will offer an adapter for current lenses, so they will be compatible with micro 4/3.

This is one of the best things about their plan, IMO. One set of lenses, two different body designs.
08-07-2008, 02:47 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by wiyum Quote
That's certainly an interesting concept you've put together, but I personally hate the idea of intermediate optics. Any optical element the light passes through that wasn't part of the original image design is going to introduce any number of artifacts, none of them desirable.
wiyum, thanks for your input. I'm not certain with that idea too, just merely sharing.

the other way is the make the intermediate optic between lens & sensor as thin as possible & highly transparent.
08-07-2008, 03:01 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by jake123 Quote
K mount lenses are not completely electronic... The aperture and af are mechanically controlled by the body, except for AF in SDM.
You make an assumption here which leds you jump to a wrong conclusion.

The K mount to Micro-ThourThirds adapter would contain all electronics and contacts required. Because the specification allows for very advanced adapters, not just restrained, tiny optical adapters. All Pentax body controls (even an AF screwdrive, if wanted) go into the adapter.
08-07-2008, 03:03 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by wiyum Quote
My assumption has grown to being that at least as many people want a rangefinder as use rangefinders. They're extremely inviting yet prohibitively expensive.
I am sure you are right. There are several appealing things about Leica and similar rangefinders.
  1. compact size
  2. near silent operation
  3. build quality
  4. image quality
  5. shoot from the hip usage
  6. floating viewfinder framing

1. Could be addressed by Pentax by reducing size of DSLR. There are limits because of the registration distance etc., but earlier digital models were much smaller. And I believe they could be smaller still. Miniaturise the battery, even if battery life is reduced somewhat. Get rid of extra knobs and switches. Streamline the control interface.

2. Requires removing mirror as in the Micro 4/3 design.

3. Make it a metal body. And black. With no/few protrusions.

4. We have this already with stellar Pentax lenses.

5. This comes from continuous usage with the same prime lens which develops the photographer's ability to frame a scene without the viewfinder.

6. The large viewfinder combined with the method of focusing allows you to use a rangefinder with both eyes open. This is not going to be duplicated on an SLR. However, what about a future mini-Pentax which removes the viewfinder and top LCD in place of a live view image on a screen that can be tilted? No reasonnot to if the mirror is gone.

One could then hold the camera at waist height and look down to compose. Nifty, huh?

For those who object that focusing would be difficult without a viewfinder, I answer that this is just one of the compromises rangefinder users already live with. This is an alternative camera that I doubt you'd use to do macros.
08-07-2008, 03:10 AM   #45
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I heard that Leica has plan to go out from 4/3 system very soon.
They plan to put FF sensor in M9 and work only with own system.
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