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02-08-2017, 05:23 PM - 1 Like   #136
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He's talking about what's in production, rather than new announcements I'd say

While many of the current users are happy with aging optics and noisy screw drive AF, how many left, or avoided Pentax from the start because of it?

02-08-2017, 05:40 PM - 1 Like   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
He's talking about what's in production, rather than new announcements I'd say

While many of the current users are happy with aging optics and noisy screw drive AF, how many left, or avoided Pentax from the start because of it?

Well, I think a legacy heritage that includes the FA31 and the FA*85 and manual lenses like the K28 f2 "Hollywood" is an asset to adventurous photographers, not a liability.

I can understand they have no appeal for the soccer moms or assist Kenspo trying to evangelize to up and comers who 'don't get it'.

If someone just wants large, professional, highly corrected lenses with inbuilt motors, they are what Pentax sells now and Ken uses them to shoot bands.

Last edited by clackers; 02-08-2017 at 05:53 PM.
02-08-2017, 06:47 PM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I don't think any of them to be offered this year will be screwdrive, Mee.

Were any of the ones released in 2016?
Thankfully none! But the issue isn't what new lenses they are offering but how many old ones they currently are offering.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well, I think a legacy heritage that includes the FA31 and the FA*85 and manual lenses like the K28 f2 "Hollywood" is an asset to adventurous photographers, not a liability.

I can understand they have no appeal for the soccer moms or assist Kenspo trying to evangelize to up and comers who 'don't get it'.

If someone just wants large, professional, highly corrected lenses with inbuilt motors, they are what Pentax sells now and Ken uses them to shoot bands.
Perhaps. Yet I strongly suspect there are many times more 'unadventurous' photographers looking for what Pentax doesn't currently offer in their older (aka current) lens catalog than there are 'adventurous' ones looking exactly for these. A lot of money walks over to Canon, Sony, or Nikon because these buyers just don't get noisy screwdriven lenses with ancient optics in 90s era shells.

We might like kitschy, vintage Ford Edsels over here.. meanwhile Toyota Camrys are selling like hotcakes. As a result, the market for Ford Edsels is continually shrinking as the bigger consumer base sees Toyota Camry's modern features more appealing... and those modern features become the norm. I think Ricoh gets this hence KAF4... but change is slow. And as Pentax users we need to accept change.

Holding on to legacy technology is not going to grow the brand. And we need to grow in order to thrive and get into the mentality (as Pentaxians) that the old way of business isn't necessarily going to keep Pentax in the market. When the market shrinks, it is a power play to not be on the bottom of the list. Because last on the list often gets to hear 'You are the weakest link, goodbye.' in a terse, British accent. Then they must perform the walk of shame. It is just no good.

That said, I suspect Ricoh could offer the FA31 and 85 with new coatings, PLM drive, and weather seals and they would sell fairly well. As I mentioned before, the primary issue is the packaging.
02-08-2017, 06:48 PM - 1 Like   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well, I think a legacy heritage that includes the FA31 and the FA*85 and manual lenses like the K28 f2 "Hollywood" is an asset to adventurous photographers, not a liability.
I know this interesting discussion is talking about cameras and lenses, but @clackers' comment led me to think of my son's musical instrument. He's in a graduate program, studying jazz performance. His main instrument is a 1953 Selmer saxophone - 1953! It's old and worn and temperamental, but the sound... ooh the sweet, sweet sound that thing makes. I think some of the Pentax legacy, vintage or heritage lenses fit that mold.

There have been several references to Fuji and their contemporary cameras and lenses. Fuji seems to have established a growing market position for themselves, and their marketing prowess certainly creates a buzz. Fuji gear also creates it's own complaints amongst users, despite the 'modern' design and attractive skins.

- Craig

02-08-2017, 06:59 PM - 3 Likes   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
.

Holding on to legacy technology is not going to grow the brand. And we need to grow in order to thrive and get into the mentality (as Pentaxians) that the old way of business isn't necessarily going to keep Pentax in the market. When the market shrinks, it is a power play to not be on the bottom of the list. Because last on the list often gets to hear 'You are the weakest link, goodbye.' in a terse, British accent. Then they must perform the walk of shame. It is just no good.

.
I think it's not either possible or desirable to emulate Canon, Nikon and Sony. They have real troubles of their own.

That expensive 'me too' chasing of the mass market would result in exactly the 'Weakest Link' scenario you mention.

A niche can survive the perils of the industry around it.
02-08-2017, 07:08 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think it's not either possible or desirable to emulate Canon, Nikon and Sony. They have real troubles of their own.

That expensive 'me too' chasing of the mass market would result in exactly the 'Weakest Link' scenario you mention.

A niche can survive the perils of the industry around it.
I would never want a 1:1 clone of Canon, Nikon, or Sony. I hope you don't think I meant that. I meant taking the core technologies adopted within and common to all 3 of them and using them in the Pentax 'theme.' And, right now, that means getting rid of all the screwdrive use from retail lenses.

That is one thing Ricoh has going for it with Pentax... they are more agile. It is the aspect that Nikon is probably feeling the worst at right now.. having to downsize.. and knowing, exactly, the places to downsize that will make the most sense financially.

On the other hand, how lean is too lean? The next couple of years are probably building years for Pentax. Last few felt like sustainment and keeping afloat more than a pure building phase.
02-08-2017, 07:36 PM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I don't think any of them to be offered this year will be screwdrive, Mee.

Were any of the ones released in 2016?
Wasn't the last the DA 18-270 in 2012? Edit: Nope, that's SDM...

So the DA 50 and the updated HD DA Limiteds in 2012 & 2013...

Last edited by boriscleto; 02-08-2017 at 07:44 PM.
02-08-2017, 07:40 PM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Wasn't the last the DA 18-270 in 2012? Edit: Nope, that's SDM...
Probably the HD Limited lenses, which came out in 2013.

02-08-2017, 07:47 PM - 1 Like   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
And, right now, that means getting rid of all the screwdrive use from retail lenses.
Your wish is their command, Mee.

I think it was Asahi Man who said some time ago in this forum they won't make another.

Which is fine as long as they don't remove the ability of the bodies to use those old lenses, like Nikon have in their 3000 and 5000 series.

We talk about great old (and affordable!) Pentax glass but Nikon and Canon have got good back catalogues too.
02-08-2017, 07:47 PM   #145
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Yet Ricoh is still leaning on those lenses to this day..

---------- Post added 02-08-17 at 08:47 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Your wish is their command, Mee.

I think it was Asahi Man who said in this forum they won't make another.
woohoo! The issue is.. how long before the oldens are worked out of the lineup?
02-08-2017, 07:54 PM - 2 Likes   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Yet Ricoh is still leaning on those lenses to this day..

---------- Post added 02-08-17 at 08:47 PM ----------



woohoo! The issue is.. how long before the oldens are worked out of the lineup?
How many are they actually producing versus selling down stock?

How will they retain the signature 'small' DA Limited Line while adding all the modern in-lens whizzes - and keep them small?

Or will Pentax need to change its core differentiating attribute - small - to become 'modern', and thereby become just another CaNikon (and a distant #3 at that).

Quite the conundrum.
02-08-2017, 08:18 PM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
How many are they actually producing versus selling down stock?

How will they retain the signature 'small' DA Limited Line while adding all the modern in-lens whizzes - and keep them small?

Or will Pentax need to change its core differentiating attribute - small - to become 'modern', and thereby become just another CaNikon (and a distant #3 at that).

Quite the conundrum.
I managed to lose {slightly embarrassing story there} the usm FE-mount lens that was kitted with my Canon camera in 1995, so I cannot make a direct comparison now, but I'm fairly certain that it wasn't noticeably larger than comparable Pentax screw-drive lenses. I am quite certain that the Pentax lenses I have now are significantly larger and heavier than comparable Canon lenses I had when I switched from Canon back to Pentax {i've sold them since then}. Based on my experiences, I'm fairly certain that WR construction and choice of materials have greater influence on lens size and mass than in-lens motor and electronic aperture do.

added:

I still have a Canon EFS 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 lens; without caps it weighs184g

I also have a Pentax FA 28-70 f/4 lens; without caps it weighs 214g

The Canon lens seems to contain more plastic, which is why it weighs less.

Last edited by reh321; 02-08-2017 at 08:28 PM. Reason: added info
02-08-2017, 08:26 PM - 1 Like   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote

woohoo! The issue is.. how long before the oldens are worked out of the lineup?
Ricoh are waiting for you to send your remaining screw drive lenses to me, only then will they proceed.

One man's trash is another man's treasure, etc.

Headline: "Mee Dances On The Grave of the FA77".
02-08-2017, 08:34 PM   #149
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@reh321 Did Canon have in-lens AF motors in 1995?

I'm talking about
DA21 Ltd.
DA40 Ltd.
DA70 Ltd
Not FA*Zooms.
FA Limited 43 & 77 are also quite small for their focal lengths, not that the DA15 Ltd. and DA35/2.8 Ltd. are large.

I just don't see how you put a DC ring motor and weather sealing in this lens body.


Last edited by monochrome; 02-08-2017 at 08:49 PM.
02-08-2017, 08:40 PM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Did Canon have in-lens AF motors in 1995? ...
Yes, the difference between Canon's USM lenses and Pentax's screw-drive lenses is what motivated me to switch from Pentax to Canon in 1995.
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