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02-08-2017, 04:01 PM - 1 Like   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Man I've said this numerous times and its fallen on deaf ears..

Offering screwdriven, premium lenses in 2017 is a crime. We are one step above peddling a car with our feet (ala Flintstones). I can only imagine showing someone the current prime lineup for K mount and having to cover for these old relics. It doesn't matter if optically, they're lovely if people can't get their heads around the packaging. Tough sell.

Perhaps I can read between the lines though and see where Ricoh is heading in the future though.

I think Fuji suceeds, however, because they use a vintage design but have very modern hardware underneath. Modern hardware/technology being the key point.
You have many of the same thoughts as me

02-08-2017, 04:22 PM   #122
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I agree, screw drive AF should be phased out (in lenses; the in-body AF motor is a necessity). I'd like(1) a new line of D FA Limiteds, with:
- excellent optics
- moderate apertures to keep weight, size and cost under check(2)
- AW or at least WR
- in-lens motors (PLM/DC)
KAF4 is fine with me.

QuoteOriginally posted by lithedreamer Quote
Electronic aperture (like that in the 55-300 PLM) breaks compatibility, though.
It only breaks forward compatibility, i.e. of older bodies with newer lenses. That's unavoidable, if you want progress.
Backwards compatibility i.e. of newer bodies with older lenses is kept, and I see no reason why this would change

(1) Like as in: willing to pay for
(2) Check the other site, they just reviewed the Sigma 85mm f/1.4 - and it's really, really good optically. However... it weights over 1.1Kg and it's also large for an 85mm f/1.4.
02-08-2017, 04:24 PM - 1 Like   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I agree, screw drive AF should be phased out (in lenses; the in-body AF motor is a necessity). I'd like(1) a new line of D FA Limiteds, with:
- excellent optics
- moderate apertures to keep weight, size and cost under check(2)
- AW or at least WR
- in-lens motors (PLM/DC)
KAF4 is fine with me.


It only breaks forward compatibility, i.e. of older bodies with newer lenses. That's unavoidable, if you want progress.
Backwards compatibility i.e. of newer bodies with older lenses is kept, and I see no reason why this would change

(1) Like as in: willing to pay for
(2) Check the other site, they just reviewed the Sigma 85mm f/1.4 - and it's really, really good optically. However... it weights over 1.1Kg and it's also large for an 85mm f/1.4.
I keep hearing you guys talk about 'progress'. Can you define that? It sounds so vague. I want to know what I'm getting when I give up forward compatibility. What are we getting with electronic aperture?
02-08-2017, 04:36 PM   #124
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"Development towards an improved or more advanced condition".
I'm a software engineer so I prefer things that works and hate change for the sake of changing. So I believe that 'progress' can bring us good things, like:
- quiet (or less noisy) operation: in-lens AF motors, electronic aperture control
- better optics: new optical designs
- better AF-C: in-lens AF motors
- more reliable operation in adverse conditions: AW/WR
- better video (in-lens AF motors/PLM, electronic aperture control)
- increased fps (electronic aperture control)
etc.

02-08-2017, 04:38 PM - 1 Like   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
"Development towards an improved or more advanced condition".
I'm a software engineer so I prefer things that works and hate change for the sake of changing. So I believe that 'progress' can bring us good things, like:
- quiet (or less noisy) operation: in-lens AF motors, electronic aperture control
- better optics: new optical designs
- better AF-C: in-lens AF motors
- more reliable operation in adverse conditions: AW/WR
- better video (in-lens AF motors/PLM, electronic aperture control)
- increased fps (electronic aperture control)
etc.
Okay. How does electronic aperture control get us those things? We have mechanical aperture lenses with in-lens AF motors already. Some good, some bad.
02-08-2017, 04:47 PM - 1 Like   #126
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Screwdrive isn't typically as fast or as accurate to minute steps as a dedicated in-lens motor can potentially be. Plus they're dreadfully loud, comparatively. Just what people want to hear at a wedding or other quiet event from the $4000 wedding photographer. zrrt zrrt zeeeee zrrt zrrt

The other aspect is potentially financial. Every other major player in the camera world moved on from screwdrive ages ago. It probably costs more money for a Sigma to offer an AF lens in K mount. Being more in line with the rest of the market, theoretically makes Pentax a teency bit more attractive.

It might even cost Ricoh more to make KAF3 lenses vs KAF4.... not sure though.
02-08-2017, 04:48 PM   #127
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Reduced noise: you can operate the optical DoF function on your camera to see that it's not very quiet.
Better video: through more precise/smooth/quiet aperture control.
Increased FPS: through faster actuation of the aperture.

I can't confirm if the 55-300 RE PLM offers all the above.

02-08-2017, 04:50 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Commercial shooters in general, are a lot more careful with regard to expenditures then you seem to think. If you are actually making a living, or part of a living with photography then you are going to make certain that you need everything you buy and you will be a lot slower to upgrade than a well padded hobby photographer. I know plenty of wedding photographers who still shoot with 5D MK II because it works and they don't really need extra resolution.

Sigma and Tamron wouldn't really be affected by a Pentax demise, even if somehow they created more lenses for the K mount. At this point, they have a process by which they can easily convert mounts and they could just have dealers send in lenses and swap out the mounts with out significant loss. The bigger danger for them is if Pentax continues to remain viable long term and they make k mount lenses but they just sit around because Pentaxians don't purchase them.

As for the whole Pentax demise, I will admit that I had some concerns back when Hoya was running the operation. It was clear that they weren't investing money in it and that they were at best a care taker. If Ricoh hadn't bought it, Pentax may have gone the way of many of the other camera brands that just couldn't make the transition from film to digital.

At this point, Pentax seems on solid footing. There are releases on a regular basis and new glass in the works. Thom Hogan doesn't know anything, but at the same time, it is clear that Ricoh is making solid (if conservative) decisions and is going to continue to run Pentax with an eye towards long term slow, but steady growth.
Yea. This.
I shoot for a living (editorial + commercial work) and a lot of you folks have a good bit more gear than me, and I'm even getting rid of stuff this year. I could do almost everything I need now with my Sony A7RII and 55 1.8. I have a fairly big shoot tomorrow where I'm bringing a backpack (645D + 3 lenses kit), and I still may only use that one camera and lens. Maybe a light (My trusty and still great 10 yr old Profoto Acute B600R light). Probably not. It'll probably stay in my trunk. If a camera company goes out of business that I have the gear of, I'll sell the stuff I have and get on with life. Maybe take a loss, but then I'll be upgrading the newer stuff which I need to do anyways every once in awhile. I upgrade bodies about every 5-6 years if that (or 2-3 generations), and my lens usage is simple enough that if I want to swap out whole systems it's not a big deal. Usually if I have a 28 or 35, a 50-ish and a 85-90 I'm good. I'm feeling greedy and wanting a longer 135 lens for my Sony but it'll probably pass.
02-08-2017, 04:52 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Reduced noise: you can operate the optical DoF function on your camera to see that it's not very quiet.
Better video: through more precise/smooth/quiet aperture control.
Increased FPS: through faster actuation of the aperture.

I can't confirm if the 55-300 RE PLM offers all the above.
Ricoh hasn't shown any interest in improving video in Pentax DSLRs. Is the mechanical aperture really what's holding FPS back? Sure DoF preview is loud, I guess if that's a big deal to y'all, I won't argue it.
02-08-2017, 04:59 PM   #130
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Video wasn't a priority, but they did some things - and they might want to put more effort into it.

At slightly over 8fps I'd say no, mechanical aperture isn't holding FPS back. Maybe if they would go over 10FPS.

Note that I'm also considering the future; fixing only the most immediate problem is not a good strategy.
02-08-2017, 04:59 PM - 1 Like   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I wont even say anything about what this Thom claim to know!

But i have to rant about Pentax biggest problem: The users (not all, but many). The long time users want new cameras, but they want Pentax to keep them in the past, making it harder for Pentax to get in the future. They want to be able to use their old glass, be quirky and nerdy. Im struggling every day to get new and young users to get over to Pentax. But its a hard task..Because the things said above, doesn't attract the younger and moneystrong generation at all..It even scares some of them away. Why do you think Olympus, Sony, Fuji etc attracts so much new photographers? They do the opposite of Pentax. If you want Pentax to grow bigger, catch up with the big ones and attract new and young photographers, the solution is to bury the past and look ahead into the future. I know Pentax is sentimental for many, but most people wants the newest and the best, because for them it is a tool. Even the french saw that at the end with their Peugeot and Citröen. Now they make state of the art cars for the future and they are rising.

That said, Pentax is trying to please everyone..But its hard to move forward when you one foot in the past and try to put the other one in the future.

And dont get me wrong..I love K-1 and the new lenses..But my main job is to attract new users..and THAT is not an easy task...
Yes, but the 645D/Z has converted a lot of us. I have quite a few friends - we're all young in our professional careers - but we are making money off this - who all came from canon/nikon digital (which most of us hated and still used film mostly) to 645 digital. Most friends waited for the Z, but there is a pretty decent contingent of portrait/documentary/fine art photographers who just in the past few years have been able to justify a Z for their work and who have jumped on board. The old MF digital there was no chance we could afford. We're all 25-35 yrs old and aren't sentimental for anything, we were all just hassy and mamiya 7 (and a few rollei and Pentax 6x7) shooters who did documentary/field work and needed to go digital because our clients weren't holding out for the film shooting that we built our portfolios on anymore. The D/Z was the best and most attainable solution. Things have changed some now of course, and Pentax needs to keep up, lots of talk about switching to the fuji or even the hassy as some of us really only need the 2 lenses they offer - but there is merit in the commercial world with the 645 system and it's flexibility and it's beautiful vertical tripod mount - if they can just come up with a few new good prime lenses and maybe fix that horrid 1/125 sync...
02-08-2017, 05:14 PM - 1 Like   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Man I've said this numerous times and its fallen on deaf ears..

Offering screwdriven, premium lenses in 2017 is a crime. We are one step above peddling a car with our feet (ala Flintstones). I can only imagine showing someone the current prime lineup for K mount and having to cover for these old relics. It doesn't matter if optically, they're lovely if people can't get their heads around the packaging. Tough sell.

Perhaps I can read between the lines though and see where Ricoh is heading in the future though.

I think Fuji suceeds, however, because they use a vintage design but have very modern hardware underneath. Modern hardware/technology being the key point.
We can agree to disagree, I find the screw drive quite acceptable. I think the statement that it's a crime to sell premium lenses as a screw drive is hyperbole.

One wonders if it would be possible to lessen the noise of screw drive - either way a motor is being used to focus, one in camera, one not...

I am one of the many Pentaxians that usually am shooting outdoors, landscape, or static subjects. Noise (I don't find it bad at all) is not a concern to me.

I came to the brand about 2 years ago, support of legacy lenses was one of the deciding features that won me over. I love that the system has such a long heritage.
02-08-2017, 05:15 PM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
You have many of the same thoughts as me
So,HD DA35/2.4 cancel?
02-08-2017, 05:17 PM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobbotron Quote
We can agree to disagree, I find the screw drive quite acceptable. I think the statement that it's a crime to sell premium lenses as a screw drive is hyperbole.

One wonders if it would be possible to lessen the noise of screw drive - either way a motor is being used to focus, one in camera, one not...

I am one of the many Pentaxians that usually am shooting outdoors, landscape, or static subjects. Noise (I don't find it bad at all) is not a concern to me.

I came to the brand about 2 years ago, support of legacy lenses was one of the deciding features that won me over. I love that the system has such a long heritage.
As a younger convert to Pentax who makes my living from it there's no way a screwdrive lens would instill confidence in me long term. Came for the affordable 33x44 sensor, put up with the lenses (as opposed to the other brands). Will not put up with them forever. If Pentax doesn't look like it's getting with the game, that isn't really gonna sit well. Quiet, faster AF is standard now and you can bet the new Fuji and Hassy 33x44 sensors will have that in the accompanying lenses.
02-08-2017, 05:18 PM - 1 Like   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote

Offering screwdriven, premium lenses in 2017 is a crime.
I don't think any of them to be offered this year will be screwdrive, Mee.

Were any of the ones released in 2016?
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