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08-22-2017, 06:44 AM   #1606
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
when I had sold my SMC DA70 Limited Silver this June - first edition - 500 units of Hoya's time, the new user (the buyer) found the hidden defect - the repairman solved the problem - it was tiny mistake with screwing of optical elements inside - the lens had floating AF problem - the most shorts are in focus, but sometimes - back focus. sometime - front focus. Sometimes - no infinity. It was unreal to understand, it was needed to open the body of lens. Strange...Only 500 units world wide and manufacturing defect. Very disagreeable situation. The buyer said that he has no any complaints, because I couldn't understand it without optical specialist.


I hope that the new lenses will have better QC than before...is it vain hope?
I'm afraid that if you use a lens it will need service eventually. The problem is more that Pentax does not have good service centers where lens tune ups can be taken care of reasonably than that the lenses eventually need such care.

08-22-2017, 07:07 AM   #1607
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I'm afraid that if you use a lens it will need service eventually. The problem is more that Pentax does not have good service centers where lens tune ups can be taken care of reasonably than that the lenses eventually need such care.
When I sent my DA*60-250 into Sun photo here for repairs, they repaired it (new front barrel) , cleaned things up, put in three new moisture seals and had it back to me in less than two weeks. So, I'm not sure what you are asking for. Unless you mean service centres right in your community.
08-22-2017, 07:27 AM   #1608
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
When I sent my DA*60-250 into Sun photo here for repairs, they repaired it (new front barrel) , cleaned things up, put in three new moisture seals and had it back to me in less than two weeks. So, I'm not sure what you are asking for. Unless you mean service centres right in your community.
Well, Ogl is in Russia, where I don't think there is that level of service. Here in the US, we have to deal with Precision who will charge you 200 plus dollars just to look at something that is out of warranty and then will take weeks to fix an item due to lack of parts. At least that was my experience with them. If they have the parts it is quite a bit quicker than that, but I had a DA 40 limited with a jammed auto focus mechanism and it took them 4 months to get parts from Japan and fix it and when they did fix it, they did it without infinity focus so I had to send it back for a second repair.

I know there have been people who have gotten good service from Precision, but my experience with off warranty stuff has been that it's slow and expensive.
08-22-2017, 07:59 AM   #1609
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Well, Ogl is in Russia, where I don't think there is that level of service. Here in the US, we have to deal with Precision who will charge you 200 plus dollars just to look at something that is out of warranty and then will take weeks to fix an item due to lack of parts. At least that was my experience with them. If they have the parts it is quite a bit quicker than that, but I had a DA 40 limited with a jammed auto focus mechanism and it took them 4 months to get parts from Japan and fix it and when they did fix it, they did it without infinity focus so I had to send it back for a second repair.

I know there have been people who have gotten good service from Precision, but my experience with off warranty stuff has been that it's slow and expensive.
Well that's true, if your lens needs parts from Japan, I waited two months for a part for my 21 ltd.

08-22-2017, 09:19 AM - 2 Likes   #1610
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I don't bash pentax, but I'm afraid to buy new lenses...I thought that limited edition with limited production was the guarantee of quality, but I was wrong...

The story with 20-40 was much worse, but dealer change this lens to FA31 by my request and I was happy...

If the customer buy new expensive lens with limited production, he must be sure in quality of this lens, I think.
08-22-2017, 09:24 AM   #1611
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I don't bash pentax, but I'm afraid to buy new lenses...I thought that limited edition with limited production was the guarantee of quality, but I was wrong...

The story with 20-40 was much worse, but dealer change this lens to FA31 by my request and I was happy...

If the customer buy new expensive lens with limited production, he must be sure in quality of this lens, I think.
True with any lens from any company. There's always a chance you may have to send it back.
08-22-2017, 05:04 PM   #1612
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I don't think your intentions turned 180 degrees and are now friendly with one post. It is obvious that you measure photographs like you measure male length; you really just want me to show photos so you can slam me. But I won't give you the opportunity.

Quite honestly, Armchair Expert or not the truth is the truth. If they know the proper technique for fly fishing, but haven't mastered it then what they are saying about the proper technique for fly fishing is still correct. I've seen your photos yet I'm not going to weigh your opinions off of them, because truth is truth.

However subjectivity is subjectivity. That is the part we seem to be going in a loop over. Photographic qualities are highly subjective.

.
Well, I gave you fair opportunity, and you've declined, Mee. What you're doing is prevent anyone following normal research protocol and evaluating you as a source. Thumb down.

If you have no expertise yourself about an opinion (you're mysteriously now calling it The Truth, that's revealing your colours), you will be forced to quote or refer to another authority that *does* have the credibility.

So that's your dilemma, since something else I infer about you is that you want us to take you seriously. Perhaps your photos would show, no, they're full of whimsy, nothing could rattle you. If so, please link.

Last edited by clackers; 08-22-2017 at 05:29 PM.
08-22-2017, 05:15 PM   #1613
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I don't bash pentax, but I'm afraid to buy new lenses...I thought that limited edition with limited production was the guarantee of quality, but I was wrong...

The story with 20-40 was much worse, but dealer change this lens to FA31 by my request and I was happy...

If the customer buy new expensive lens with limited production, he must be sure in quality of this lens, I think.
It's easy to take this as a personal insult, Ogl ... we pay good money and don't get the product we set our heart on.

But all the companies work this way. It's cheaper to lower QC and replace/refund bad examples than extensively check all of them before they leave the factory.

You can read Roger Cicala's essays on this topic. He is the owner of Lens Rentals in the USA, has his own optical testing equipment, and as a result has data few can hope to have access to.

Yes, even Canon L Series glass displays a Gaussian Bell curve of performances - there are items sold that should never have been shipped.

08-22-2017, 06:35 PM   #1614
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well, I gave you fair opportunity, and you've declined, Mee. What you're doing is prevent anyone following normal research protocol and evaluating you as a source. Thumb down.

If you have no expertise yourself about an opinion (you're mysteriously now calling it The Truth, that's revealing your colours), you will be forced to quote or refer to another authority that *does* have the credibility.

So that's your dilemma, since something else I infer about you is that you want us to take you seriously. Perhaps your photos would show, no, they're full of whimsy, nothing could rattle you. If so, please link.
Oh please give it a rest. You don't really care about my opinion short of dismissing my opinion. The only thing sharing photos does is give you potential ammo for acting superior further.

But you don't seem to see the notion that even if you do enjoy my (or anyone elses for that matter) photos, it doesn't make something I say that is objectively incorrect somehow correct. At the same time if you do not enjoy my photos, it doesn't make something I say that is objectively correct somehow incorrect. facts are facts, truth is truth. a 50 f/1.4 is faster than a 50 f/2.8 and the sky is blue. Will photos change this?

And, beyond this, are subjective thoughts shared between us are just that.. chitchat and mere opinion. Which I'm allowed to have. My thoughts on any product or technique are just as valuable as yours and everyone elses here despite any shared or not shared images. Because, again, they're just opinions. Which we're each allowed to have. We're equal.

Photos don't somehow automatically strengthen the values of one's thought more or less. Because I'm not trying to win you or anyone else over. If I like a 50 f/1.8 then I like a 50 f/1.8 -- I don't need you to agree with me in order to validate that opinion that I personally own.

If you have a personal issue with me, I'd suggest you throw me on ignore. Thumb down indeed.
08-22-2017, 08:31 PM   #1615
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote

Yes, even Canon L Series glass displays a Gaussian Bell curve of performances - there are items sold that should never have been shipped.
I never think about other brands which I never used. Why should I think about it? if Canon has the same QC as Ricoh, it doesn't calm me.
But the production capacity of C, N or S is many times higher than Ricoh.
08-22-2017, 09:33 PM   #1616
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
The only thing sharing photos does is give you potential ammo for acting superior further. .
Such insecurity!


QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Because, again, they're just opinions. Which we're each allowed to have. We're equal.
This is what Flat Earthers say. No, ignorant opinions do not equal informed ones, Mee.

I would listen to Nass on the subject of macro, not some Armchair Expert, I would give credence to Ducatigaz on wildlife, not a Keyboard Coward. In reading the tea leaves at Ricoh, Asahi Man and Kenspo seem to have genuine sources, almost everyone else is pretending.

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
If you have a personal issue with me, I'd suggest you throw me on ignore.
I've never had my head in the sand, putting anyone on my Ignore list, not even obvious trolls who later got banned like Osv and Jogiba.

Since I'm sure everyone is bored witless by all this off-topic stuff, can I ask you to actually honour your seemingly forgotten promise to us back in Post 1604 - 'am disengaging in this conversation'?

I will in turn not post again in this thread.

If you want to vent at how unfair I or the world is, please do so instead by PM.

Couldn't be fairer than that!

Last edited by clackers; 08-22-2017 at 09:41 PM.
08-22-2017, 09:44 PM - 1 Like   #1617
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Such insecurity!
If you say so. Though the fact that you're calling me insecure tells me I was correct in action.


QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
This is what Flat Earthers say. No, ignorant opinions do not equal informed ones.

I would listen to Nass on the subject of macro, not some Armchair Expert, I would give credence to Ducatigaz on wildlife, not a Keyboard Coward. In reading the tea leaves at Ricoh, Asahi Man and Kenspo seem to have genuine sources, almost everyone else is pretending.
Is it? You like seafoam green, I like forest green. I'm not sure how your opinion or my opinion trumps the other. It is no different than one saying they like the DA 55 f/1.4 more than the Sigma 50 1/1.4 as there is no formal means of objectively rating one over the other. One person might value IQ over handling. The other might value weight and size over IQ and handling.. etc. Thus all ratings of these lenses are subjective.. you know.. based on personal opinion which is based off of personal likes and dislikes which are based off a number of qualities each different from person to person.

Yet I'm not giving advice on macro technique, or wildlife, or rumors. So I'm not sure why you're comparing them to me. However, even if I was, the fact that someone knows macro technique, or wildlife, or has rumors and doesn't share images of them doesn't negate their posts. That is what I mean by truth is truth. As in my example of fly fishing.. one can know proper technique step by step, but not have the actual steps mastered in practice. Yet they can still relay the proper technique. Because their knowledge is based off of proven steps... aka truth...

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I've never had my head in the sand, putting anyone on my Ignore list, not even obvious trolls who later got banned like Osv and Jogiba.

Since I'm sure everyone is bored witless by all this off-topic stuff, can I ask you to actually honour your promise back in Post 1604 - 'am disengaging in this conversation'?
Sure that's a great idea.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I will in turn not post again in this thread.

If you want to vent at how unfair the I or the world are, please do so at me by PM.

Couldn't be fairer than that!
Deal.
08-22-2017, 09:48 PM - 2 Likes   #1618
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I never think about other brands which I never used. Why should I think about it? if Canon has the same QC as Ricoh, it doesn't calm me.
I can see that if somehow Ricoh were deliberately sending you dud copies, Ogl, you should be outraged.

But if it is an industry practice (like software, the buyers act as the last testers in the product chain), as consumers we can always buy only from sellers who have a return policy, and test items for decentreing and other defects as soon as we receive them.

These strategies minimize our distress.

Last year I had to return a wide angle lens back to one of our members in the States - it would only shoot wide open. I lost money on the postage but accept there was no malice by the seller and would buy from him again, because we're a community of good faith.

Last edited by clackers; 08-24-2017 at 04:36 PM.
08-24-2017, 02:02 PM   #1619
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It's officially been 6 months since the announcement.

Hey Ricoh Pentax, how about an update?
08-24-2017, 09:32 PM - 3 Likes   #1620
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QuoteOriginally posted by nzondlo Quote
It's officially been 6 months since the announcement.

Hey Ricoh Pentax, how about an update?
If only to put this thread out of its misery...
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