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10-08-2017, 11:34 AM   #1741
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Not sure I agree with that entirely. Slower does not necessarily equal cheaper. As a landscape shooter f/2.8 is not something I need very often but an excellent light weight f/4 zoom of the same quality as DFA 70-200 would be in my shopping basket. I will never be a customer for the 70-200 f/2.8 as I do not need the wide aperture and cannot afford the weight when hiking. But I would be happy to buy something similar to the DA*60-250 that is updated to modern standards and lens motor.

Same with the DFA 15-30, it is too heavy, does not easily use filters and has a wide aperture I do not need. For those that need the f/2.8 I am sure it is great and I am glad Pentax has it in the catalog for them. But for a hiking landscape shooter I would much rather have the modern equivalent of the FA 20-35 f/4.

Pentax needed the standard trio of f/2.8 lenses to establish themselves and that is fine. But they bill the K-1 as a 'field camera' so how about some 'field' lenses? Small, light weight, slower aperture, with reasonable filter rings and superb sharpness across the field. 18-35 f/4? 24-90 f/4? 60-250 f/4?
I understand. But why do people buy the Canon 70-200 f4 rather than the 70-200 f2.8? It may be the smaller size. It may be that it is really sharp from f4 on, but I think if we are honest the 70-200 f4 without IS runs 600 dollars and with runs 1100 dollars, while the 70-200 IS II is 1949.

There is an expectation that if Pentax released a 70-200 f4 it would be priced in the 600 to 800 dollar range (you have SR in the body so that's obviously not needed). I would be surprised if that wouldn't steal sales from the DFA *70-200. Anyway, if I had to guess why Pentax hasn't released any slow-ish lenses yet, that would be it.

Personally, I want a smaller wide angle (20-ish mm and f4 is fine), but I already own the f2.8 zoom lenses and so even if Pentax released a 24-70 f4 or 70-200 f4, I don't know that I would be interested.

10-08-2017, 12:53 PM   #1742
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I don't know why Ricoh would spend time on a 24-70 f4 when the 28-105 exists and seems to be very well respected.
10-08-2017, 01:11 PM - 1 Like   #1743
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
But for a hiking landscape shooter I would much rather have the modern equivalent of the FA 20-35 f/4.
That's the DA 20-40 Ltd.

Does OK on the "K1 lab" down to 24mm:



. . . and might do better re-baffled for FF, like folks have been doing with the DA* 60-250.

Don't forget that the FA 20-35 MTF curves went south fast towards the edge of the FF frame.
10-08-2017, 03:43 PM - 1 Like   #1744
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
I don't know why Ricoh would spend time on a 24-70 f4 when the 28-105 exists and seems to be very well respected.
Canon offers one. It is smaller, lighter weight, has a smaller filter thread.. but I don't ever foresee a new K mount 24-70 f/4.

I think a better value would be a 24-105/120mm f/4 ...but I also don't foresee one of those happening soon either (unless Sigma starts offering theirs in K mount).

10-08-2017, 03:48 PM   #1745
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
That's the DA 20-40 Ltd. Does OK on the "K1 lab" down to 24mm:
Sorry, no. I am not in market for a lens that does 'ok' or is otherwise crippled. The DFA 24-70 is just fine at 24mm so I have no need for another lens that goes to 24mm sort of. And the DFA 28-105 is also very, very good within its range. The DA 20-40 is a nice lens by all reports but it is NOT a FF lens.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
There is an expectation that if Pentax released a 70-200 f4 it would be priced in the 600 to 800 dollar range (you have SR in the body so that's obviously not needed).
Not by me but I expect you might be correct in general. However, I think I paid $1,150 or so for the DA*60-250 and would expect to pay at least that or perhaps closer to $1,500 for a FF version with a modern motor and the other goodies on the DFA 70-200. The current price is I think still around $1,200. So the market is there for a * class lens in that range and aperture.
10-08-2017, 06:26 PM   #1746
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I say that a 24-105 f4 won't happen because I don't think, out of all of the lenses they could spend time & money developing, Ricoh would bother with this.

"It's a landscape camera... yes, the widest prime is the FA31... no, this isn't a joke, why do you ask?"
10-08-2017, 07:46 PM   #1747
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
I say that a 24-105 f4 won't happen because I don't think, out of all of the lenses they could spend time & money developing, Ricoh would bother with this.
Its a really popular focal length and fixed aperture ... they sell by the bazillions for Canon and Nikon (and I'm guessing well for Sigma too since they keep offering updated versions) as upscale kit lenses... a notch above the variable aperture kits but with a wider short end.

Pentax really needs weather sealed primes though more so at this point imo. That and a modern 70-300 ish FF zoom to pair with the 28-105 WR.
10-08-2017, 11:55 PM   #1748
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
and wait for it.............:
It is set then, FF MILC is coming!

10-09-2017, 12:19 AM - 1 Like   #1749
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QuoteOriginally posted by x4rd Quote
It is set then, FF MILC is coming!
It won't be a MILC. It will be a MILK - Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens K-Mount camera!
10-09-2017, 01:35 AM - 2 Likes   #1750
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
It will be a MILK - Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens K-Mount camera!
I wonder what Nikon's full frame mirrorless will be then.....
10-09-2017, 01:49 AM   #1751
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
I wonder what Nikon's full frame mirrorless will be then.....
let the Nikon guys break their heads. Lucky for us it's quite easy
10-09-2017, 02:28 AM - 1 Like   #1752
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I understand. But why do people buy the Canon 70-200 f4 rather than the 70-200 f2.8? It may be the smaller size. It may be that it is really sharp from f4 on, but I think if we are honest the 70-200 f4 without IS runs 600 dollars and with runs 1100 dollars, while the 70-200 IS II is 1949.
Let me tell you why I didn't bought Canon 70-200mm f2.8L IS and I opted to spend the money to buy a 70-200mm F4L IS and another lens. I didn't wanted to save some money, that's for sure.

1. The 70-200mm f4 lens is half the weight of the one with f2.8 aperture
2. The 70-200mm f4 lens is smaller, but it has exactly the same solid construction as its big brother
3. It's very sharp from f4
4. It's a lot more fun to use it
5. It's half the price of a 70-200mm f2.8 lens. With the price difference I bought a Canon 135mm f2L lens and I have 2 excelent lenses in my backpack instead of one big and heavy lens.

If I were a sports photographer and if my main events were indoor, a 70-200mm f2.8 with a monopod would have been my choice. But, I wouldn't use a 70-200mm f2.8 for portraits or for events (like weddings for example) even if someone would give me one for free. Why I won't use one? Because:
- it's too heavy
- it's very big, it draw attention to it and people become uncomfortable when they see a big lens pointed to them
- I would rather use an 85mm f1.2 or the new 85mm f1.4L IS lens as a tele lens for indoor and gain also a stop of light

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 10-09-2017 at 02:35 AM.
10-09-2017, 02:46 AM   #1753
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Let me tell you why I didn't bought Canon 70-200mm f2.8L IS and I opted to spend the money to buy a 70-200mm F4L IS and another lens. I didn't wanted to save some money, that's for sure.

1. The 70-200mm f4 lens is half the weight of the one with f2.8 aperture
2. The 70-200mm f4 lens is smaller, but it has exactly the same solid construction as its big brother
3. It's very sharp from f4
4. It's a lot more fun to use it
5. It's half the price of a 70-200mm f2.8 lens. With the price difference I bought a Canon 135mm f2L lens and I have 2 excelent lenses in my backpack instead of one big and heavy lens.

If I were a sports photographer and if my main events were indoor, a 70-200mm f2.8 with a monopod would have been my choice. But, I wouldn't use a 70-200mm f2.8 for portraits or for events (like weddings for example) even if someone would give me one for free. Why I won't use one? Because:
- it's too heavy
- it's very big, it draw attention to it and people become uncomfortable when they see a big lens pointed to them
- I would rather use an 85mm f1.2 or the new 85mm f1.4L IS lens as a tele lens for indoor and gain also a stop of light
Each person breaks the equation down a little differently. Using a 70-200 for weddings is fine. People expect a professional photographer to have big gear and that's not a problem. Having an extra stop to open up in low light situations is very handy to have. Most wedding photographers I know primarily use zooms and only use primes for the formal photographs. Having the flexibility is pretty important.

Regardless, they are both nice lenses and Canon has a lot more lenses in its line up and sells more lenses than Pentax. I just think price is a big factor in why people buy the f4 version of this lens. Certainly it isn't the only factor, but if both were priced the same, a lot of folks would buy the f2.8 version even though it's bigger.
10-09-2017, 03:27 AM   #1754
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Pentax' solution for traveling light seems to be APS-C.
Pentax' solutions for uncompromising image quality are FF and medium format.

I don't think we should expect them to match what Canon/Nikon built in decades. Instead, we should use what they have to our advantage.
A 3 parallel lens lines - f/3.5-5.6, f/4, f/2.8 - is unrealistic IMO.

Of course, this approach doesn't work perfectly since certain key APS-C lenses weren't updated.
10-09-2017, 03:47 AM   #1755
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The limiteds were updated. The DA* lenses weren't. It makes sense. Pentax added the 20-40 the 16-85 a new more compact 55-300 plm. Want * quality, move to full frame is what Ricoh is telling us.
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