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12-21-2017, 09:10 AM   #2266
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QuoteOriginally posted by banep Quote
Not only usable or unnecessary prime like D-FA 50, any prime.
Pentax focused on DFA zoom lenses first. DFA primes have been announced, 50mm and 85mm, and possibly wide angle coming soon. Currently you have FA 35mm f2, FA 50mm f1.4, FA 31mm, FA 43mm, FA 77mm, DFA 50mm and DFA 100mm prime lenses available for FF. All are high quality optics. Not to mention third party primes and legacy lenses. I'm sure you can find lenses that fill your needs, and more are coming in the next years.

12-21-2017, 09:23 AM - 2 Likes   #2267
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QuoteOriginally posted by banep Quote
Almost 2 years after K-1 announcement we have 0 new full frame prime lenses. Not only usable or unnecessary prime like D-FA 50, any prime. If somebody gave me that information 2 years ago I will never buy my K-1. I'll stick with Pentax crop cameras in the future but it looks like that Ricoh camera business will be dead in a few years.
With the quality of the modern zoom lenses Ricoh has released primes are unnecessary to achieve any reasonable image quality desired. Their only functions are to fill in niche areas like the 100mm macro or 50mm f/1.4. And to satisfy the desire of enthusiasts to have a collection of lenses. Very little in the way of practical photography cannot be achieved with the lenses already released.

I have a very nice collection of primes, two in fact, one set in M42 and one in k-mount. And while I enjoy using them for personal projects when I have the time, the work gets done with the excellent zooms that I use every day. I realize that this is not going to be a popular opinion but the single minded focus on prime lenses on this forum is IMHO also a niche and does not represent the opinions of camera users in general. And particularly not those who might be looking to buy a DSLR for the first time.

Ricoh needs to release lenses for the people they think will actually buy cameras, and those are zoom lenses, not primes.
12-21-2017, 09:29 AM   #2268
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Pentax focused on DFA zoom lenses first. DFA primes have been announced, 50mm and 85mm, and possibly wide angle coming soon. Currently you have FA 35mm f2, FA 50mm f1.4, FA 31mm, FA 43mm, FA 77mm, DFA 50mm and DFA 100mm prime lenses available for FF. All are high quality optics. Not to mention third party primes and legacy lenses. I'm sure you can find lenses that fill your needs, and more are coming in the next years.
No, Baneb it right. D-FA is un usable. So is the next one. Because they are not out yet, so they cannot be used. But joking aside...they did actually tell that there are new primes coming. And actually only thing missing with K-1 launch was those zooms. As you pointed out there are quite good selection of still manufactured lenses by Pentax and others. I quess that they are unusable too..
12-21-2017, 09:54 AM   #2269
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Before the single body fad, the golden rule was to offer X SLR with a 50mm, that was the basic, and for most amatuers of the day, the only one needed..If you were to expand to the golden kit, it would be a 15mm and a 28-75 -ish zoom..All other lens were considered "exotic".
Therefore, I always considered strange that Ricoh would come up with a digital FF, without a FF 50mm before or during the introduction of the K1..I know that the FA was around ok, but thats a film era screwdrive lens.

12-21-2017, 10:06 AM   #2270
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jeff Lopez Quote
Before the single body fad, the golden rule was to offer X SLR with a 50mm, that was the basic, and for most amatuers of the day, the only one needed..If you were to expand to the golden kit, it would be a 15mm and a 28-75 -ish zoom..All other lens were considered "exotic".
Therefore, I always considered strange that Ricoh would come up with a digital FF, without a FF 50mm before or during the introduction of the K1..I know that the FA was around ok, but thats a film era screwdrive lens.
Well you said ityoir self. There is/was FA 50 and it actually fits that basic amateur label pretty well(D-fa 50/2.8 is there too for more special)And then, there was 28-105, which is there too...but 15 mm is already quite exotic! Especially in FF format.

This and next fast lenses are ansver to competition around brands, where actually 70-200 is aimed too. Real pro grade. I think that someone starting up nowadays is not gonna buy these lenses first. That DA 35&50 are quite a bit more affordable and 28-105 zoom. Those paired up with consumer grade FF 70-300 and perhaps 20 or 24 mm cheaper prime..that is what most are starting up. Or then something similar in APS-C.
12-21-2017, 10:09 AM   #2271
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They had the FA 50 1.4 and the D-FA 50 2.8 Macro at the time of the K-1 intro. Plus the DA 50 1.8 and DA*55 1.4 which are proven to work on the K-1 through examples shared by entities like the Ricoh Imaging Lab.

When I get my new-to-me K-1 (at a steep discount) I've got four 28mm primes, a 35, and three 50's ready to go without using a crop mode or cropping in post. The very next thing I want to do is find an FA*24 and maybe a Zenitar 16 F.E. to do wide shots with. It's going to be SICK.
12-21-2017, 10:18 AM - 1 Like   #2272
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I realize that this is not going to be a popular opinion but the single minded focus on prime lenses on this forum is IMHO also a niche and does not represent the opinions of camera users in general. And particularly not those who might be looking to buy a DSLR for the first time.
I only use primes (and most of them are FF), but I totally agree. You get sales with lenses like 24-70mm, 70-200mm.. these lenses are the "typical pro kit" and Pentax did well with them (and the 15-30mm). Primes are important, but they have to come later. Especially today, when the premium zoom lenses are so good they are rivaling primes, most consumers buy zooms. Pentax took the correct strategy and took its sweet time because it wanted to make top level lenses, not just cheap, quickly made stuff, not just rebadges from other brands.
12-21-2017, 10:33 AM   #2273
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Especially today, when the premium zoom lenses are so good they are rivaling primes, most consumers buy zooms.
^^^^^^ This.
In the film era 'pros' or enthusiasts used primes because the zooms could not achieve the image quality needed. That is no longer the case. Even consumer zooms are as good or nearly so as film era primes. Today's top line zooms are more than a match for film era primes.

I look forward to a few good primes in areas that are not well covered by the standard zooms. A very fast, wide prime would be welcome for astro-photography. A small lightweight FF equivalent of the DA 15mm would be welcome. But in general Ricoh has things fairly well covered.

12-21-2017, 10:55 AM   #2274
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Well you said ityoir self. There is/was FA 50 and it actually fits that basic amateur label pretty well(D-fa 50/2.8 is there too for more special)And then, there was 28-105, which is there too...but 15 mm is already quite exotic! Especially in FF format.

This and next fast lenses are ansver to competition around brands, where actually 70-200 is aimed too. Real pro grade. I think that someone starting up nowadays is not gonna buy these lenses first. That DA 35&50 are quite a bit more affordable and 28-105 zoom. Those paired up with consumer grade FF 70-300 and perhaps 20 or 24 mm cheaper prime..that is what most are starting up. Or then something similar in APS-C.
Good point..Now just out of curiosity, if you were to choose a 50mm 1.4 with screwdrive or the same one with the new AF motor, what would it be?
12-21-2017, 11:19 AM   #2275
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jeff Lopez Quote
Before the single body fad, the golden rule was to offer X SLR with a 50mm, that was the basic, and for most amatuers of the day, the only one needed..If you were to expand to the golden kit, it would be a 15mm and a 28-75 -ish zoom..All other lens were considered "exotic".
Therefore, I always considered strange that Ricoh would come up with a digital FF, without a FF 50mm before or during the introduction of the K1..I know that the FA was around ok, but thats a film era screwdrive lens.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jeff Lopez Quote
Good point..Now just out of curiosity, if you were to choose a 50mm 1.4 with screwdrive or the same one with the new AF motor, what would it be?
So, clearly there are several 50mm lenses in the line up: DA 50 f1.8, FA 50 f1.4, 50 f2.8 macro, and DA *55 f1.4. If you want to broaden the definition just a bit, there is the FA 43 as well.

As to the whole question about screw drive versus in lens auto focus, I think screw drive is fine, particularly if it knocks 700 dollars of the price tag. The FA 43 currently sells for a hair below 500 dollars. Assuming a price of 1150 for the DFA 50, I think a lot of folks would deal with a little auto focus noise for that price difference. Beyond which, 50mm isn't really a focal length that generally demands top end, ultra fast auto focus.

The promising thing to me is more that if Pentax is working on new in lens motors then maybe they will end up in other lenses where they would be useful, but here it probably isn't necessary and increases cost and size a fair amount. The reason to get this lens will be for wide open performance not because it auto focuses so much faster than the FA 43.
12-21-2017, 11:23 AM   #2276
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Will you sell me your unloved K-1 for a good discount? With the situation you describe it can not be worth very much.
Im Pretty sure he wants to swap his K1 for my K7, so your out of luck!
12-21-2017, 11:27 AM   #2277
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jeff Lopez Quote
Good point..Now just out of curiosity, if you were to choose a 50mm 1.4 with screwdrive or the same one with the new AF motor, what would it be?
I actually happen to have DA*55 and FA 43 limited. IF Id have to make that decision again now. Anb on budget Id have DA50...or Siggy 50 if that would be available. Now DA*55 would be in my mind honestly, because of AW sealing.

If that new lens performs well, I could see my self thinking of buying one. But Im not rich..so 55. Short ansver, right
12-21-2017, 01:01 PM   #2278
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Will you sell me your unloved K-1 for a good discount? With the situation you describe it can not be worth very much.
I'm preparing it for a trade: rarely used K-1 in mint condition with D-FA 28-105 vs K-P with DA*11-18.
So beloved bulky, clunky and clumsy K-1 is waiting for you to get that small and beautiful APS-C combo and it's all yours.
12-21-2017, 01:19 PM - 1 Like   #2279
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QuoteOriginally posted by banep Quote
I'm preparing it for a trade: rarely used K-1 in mint condition with D-FA 28-105 vs K-P with DA*11-18.
So beloved bulky, clunky and clumsy K-1 is waiting for you to get that small and beautiful APS-C combo and it's all yours.
You want to trade me a used camera that, when new, sold for $1800 or so in return for a camera (that I don't have) that sells for $900 right now with a lens no one anywhere has and will probably sell for $1000 when it comes to market? What?

Deals aren't your deal, I think.
12-21-2017, 02:07 PM   #2280
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Pentax focused on DFA zoom lenses first. DFA primes have been announced, 50mm and 85mm, and possibly wide angle coming soon. Currently you have FA 35mm f2, FA 50mm f1.4, FA 31mm, FA 43mm, FA 77mm, DFA 50mm and DFA 100mm prime lenses available for FF. All are high quality optics. Not to mention third party primes and legacy lenses. I'm sure you can find lenses that fill your needs, and more are coming in the next years.
First of all I have all those prime lenses except FA77 and guess what? None of them except DFA100 is WR which is a must for me.
It is easy to use them at summer but now it is winter and there is a lot of rain, snow and moisture in the air and when you come back home from trekking camera literally looks like it's been tossed into the river.
On the other hand all D-FA zooms are WR but they are too big and heavy for outdoor usage.

Why I think that new 50mm is unusable? Because plenty of old ones are on the market and still in production? No.
Ok here comes the ugly truth.
From a few thousand images shot with K-1 and DFA28-105 and organized in Lightroom I have very interesting statistics: only 3% of those images are shot in focal lengths between 40 and 60mm. 5x less then any of 28,35,70,85 or 105.
I also ask a few friends of mine with a Nikon/Canon full frame cameras about their Lightroom statistics and they got similar results, all of them have between 2% and 5% at the same focal range in samples between 30.000-80.000 photos.
That is the reason why I said that D-FA50mm is unusable lens because it will probably never return its investment. Not even close. For 99% of its future owners.
If you don't believe me you can do the same statistics for yourself.

D-FA 85mm will be completely different story but we probably won't got it before Asahi's 100th year aniversary which is not acceptable for me.
I waited a lot on Pentax full frame digital camera, but I won't be waiting same amount of time for a decent lens lineup.
In next 6 months I will quit Pentax full frame and return back to aps-c and stick with it while Ricoh is in camera business.

My opinion is that Pentax users needs WR primes in 20-35mm range, 85mm prime and compact consumer level WR telephoto zoom (100-300 or 100-400) much more than 50mm prime.

---------- Post added 12-21-17 at 10:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Ricoh needs to release lenses for the people they think will actually buy cameras, and those are zoom lenses, not primes.
How about most popular consumer lenses which are selling at least 100x more than than 70-200 pro lens.
Like 70-300 or 28-300?
Will be?
In a few years?
Cmon, those lenses are selling cameras, not huge and heavy pro lenses.
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