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12-21-2017, 02:26 PM   #2281
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banep, you'll be happy to know that when I sent my 26mm f2.4 prime lens request to Ricoh yesterday, I included WR as one of the items they need to include in the offering.

This isn't actually a joke, I think there's a lot of Pentax shooters that would like the exact lens I requests, but I have strong doubts as to how much attention they'll pay attention to my request.

To your point about 50mm not being a very useful focal length for full frame shooters, I don't know since I don't shoot full frame (never have, really) but I could see how it's not as appealing as some of the other focal lengths you've mentioned. The FA 77 seems much better. 50 on crop is nice for portraits though.

12-21-2017, 02:27 PM   #2282
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
No, Baneb it right. D-FA is un usable. So is the next one. Because they are not out yet, so they cannot be used. But joking aside...they did actually tell that there are new primes coming. And actually only thing missing with K-1 launch was those zooms. As you pointed out there are quite good selection of still manufactured lenses by Pentax and others. I quess that they are unusable too..
What is the point of WR camera without WR lenses? On a heavy rain and snow like these days better keep those lenses in your pocket, at least they will be saved for sunny summer days. You want more on unusability?
12-21-2017, 02:30 PM   #2283
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QuoteOriginally posted by banep Quote
How about most popular consumer lenses which are selling at least 100x more than than 70-200 pro lens.
Sure. Like the DFA 28-105? Now we need a 20-35 of the same consumer caliber. I'd buy it on pre-order.
12-21-2017, 02:30 PM   #2284
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Those paired up with consumer grade FF 70-300 and perhaps 20 or 24 mm cheaper prime..that is what most are starting up. Or then something similar in APS-C.
Bingo, at least one Pentaxian with a common sense.

12-21-2017, 02:38 PM   #2285
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
You want to trade me a used camera that, when new, sold for $1800 or so in return for a camera (that I don't have) that sells for $900 right now with a lens no one anywhere has and will probably sell for $1000 when it comes to market? What?

Deals aren't your deal, I think.
K1+D-FA 28-105 (sold separately) was payed 2698€
KP is currently 1000€ and a new lens will cost probably another 1000€.
That is 25% price difference which is reasonable for K-1 with only 9.000 shots.

Math obviously wasn't your favourite subject?
12-21-2017, 02:46 PM   #2286
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Your pricing is all weird as you use moon dollars.
12-21-2017, 02:49 PM   #2287
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Your pricing is all weird as you use moon dollars.
Welcome to EU.

---------- Post added 12-21-17 at 10:51 PM ----------

It's not so hard these days to make ff ultra-wide primes

New: Yongnuo YN 14mm f/2.8 ultra-wide prime lens | Photo Rumors

Except in Pentax...
12-21-2017, 03:05 PM   #2288
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Will you sell me your unloved K-1 for a good discount? With the situation you describe it can not be worth very much.
Do you think introducing a camera and then not doing anything about a lens lineup for 2 years is a sound business strategy designed to win new customers?

12-21-2017, 05:39 PM   #2289
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Do you think introducing a camera and then not doing anything about a lens lineup for 2 years is a sound business strategy designed to win new customers?
It sounds like a great business strategy!

They invested in developing a camera and zoom lens line up and then went about the business of selling it. Maximizing income with little further development costs.
I have a suspicion here that Ricoh know a thing or two about what they are doing.
Now-presumably- they are funding new product development from sales revenue and not relying on huge cash injections from the parent company. Hence the conservative approach.

Interestingly at a portraiture workshop that I attended recently, the instructors recommended FF and prime lenses as the way to go. They also suggested avoiding anything longer than 85mm as young people these days are so accustomed to seeing themselves in 28 mm selfies that they struggle to identify with the flatter perspective of longer telephoto lenses!
The Canon shooters use 11-24mm, 50mm f1.2 and 85mm f1.2. Canon 200mm F2 was used occasionally to "obliterate the background".

A Pentaxian could use 15-30mm, and future DFA* 50/85.
I am getting the 15-30 next, just as soon as a sale becomes available here.

---------- Post added 12-21-17 at 05:40 PM ----------
12-21-2017, 08:09 PM   #2290
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
It sounds like a great business strategy!

They invested in developing a camera and zoom lens line up and then went about the business of selling it. Maximizing income with little further development costs.
I have a suspicion here that Ricoh know a thing or two about what they are doing.
Now-presumably- they are funding new product development from sales revenue and not relying on huge cash injections from the parent company. Hence the conservative approach.
As you say, "presumably", as in your entire post is speculation.

[
12-21-2017, 10:39 PM   #2291
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QuoteOriginally posted by banep Quote
Bingo, at least one Pentaxian with a common sense.
Well, They obviously wanted to came up with ’best zooms’ first. Making those takes a lot of effort 70-200&150-450. And to be honest, with 55-300WR already there and great lineup for APS-C, they coul get away(mostly) with that. So one can’t say that they have done ’nothing’ with lenses. It is slow, but not nothing.

QuoteOriginally posted by banep Quote
Welcome to EU.

---------- Post added 12-21-17 at 10:51 PM ----------

It's not so hard these days to make ff ultra-wide primes

New: Yongnuo YN 14mm f/2.8 ultra-wide prime lens | Photo Rumors

Except in Pentax...
Except this lens is still quite old..that design. Toleranses are little different that pentax has to deliver. So not the same thing..
12-21-2017, 11:11 PM   #2292
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Except this lens is still quite old..that design. Toleranses are little different that pentax has to deliver. So not the same thing..
That lens is just an illustration, but better old than nothing.

---------- Post added 12-22-17 at 07:46 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
It sounds like a great business strategy!

They invested in developing a camera and zoom lens line up and then went about the business of selling it. Maximizing income with little further development costs.
I have a suspicion here that Ricoh know a thing or two about what they are doing.
Now-presumably- they are funding new product development from sales revenue and not relying on huge cash injections from the parent company. Hence the conservative approach.
---------- Post added 12-21-17 at 05:40 PM ----------
I was also thinking the same thing and it sounds like a good strategy on paper but there is a catch.
Sales were much lower than expected and that slowed down new lens releases to the unacceptable level.

I am from a small EU country but with a few decades of Pentax tradition and a decent number of Pentax users.
We still have a regular shops here selling Pentax equipment with K-1 and all D-FA zooms currently in stock.
I've got some sales figures and in short selling of K-1 is miserable and D-FA zooms sales are total disaster.
Honestly I've expected 10x more sales when K-1 came out.
Pentax equipment is selling at the same shop side by side with Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Olympus.
People are watching Pentax but very rarely buying K-1 and never buying those D-FA zooms except 28-105.
After this Christmas, for the first time in decades probably won't be Pentax equipment in stock anymore, just internet orders.
So no more touch&try for me and other Pentax users.

As a conclusion that was a great strategy by Ricoh which failed miserably, at least in my country.
12-22-2017, 12:40 AM   #2293
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QuoteOriginally posted by banep Quote
That lens is just an illustration, but better old than nothing.

---------- Post added 12-22-17 at 07:46 AM ----------



I was also thinking the same thing and it sounds like a good strategy on paper but there is a catch.
Sales were much lower than expected and that slowed down new lens releases to the unacceptable level.

I am from a small EU country but with a few decades of Pentax tradition and a decent number of Pentax users.
We still have a regular shops here selling Pentax equipment with K-1 and all D-FA zooms currently in stock.
I've got some sales figures and in short selling of K-1 is miserable and D-FA zooms sales are total disaster.
Honestly I've expected 10x more sales when K-1 came out.
Pentax equipment is selling at the same shop side by side with Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Olympus.
People are watching Pentax but very rarely buying K-1 and never buying those D-FA zooms except 28-105.
After this Christmas, for the first time in decades probably won't be Pentax equipment in stock anymore, just internet orders.
So no more touch&try for me and other Pentax users.

As a conclusion that was a great strategy by Ricoh which failed miserably, at least in my country.
I suppose that Panasonic and Olympus are taking big share of customers. It goes along with size, and also agressive marketing. It might be that Ricoh has failed on that, where you are. But I still think that going for big and also niche/pro-stuff is needed, IF you look things in more than 5 years timeline. They are in deep end right now with K-1. But they also have 645 and APS-C line to work with. Thos consumer lenses will come, but being known of being consumer brand is not going to change by not doing these things that not everybody can and will afford. There is other side of that coin, but if one want to change, then it has to be done properly. let's see in 3 yrs. All big brands are struggling with their FF line. Sony is splashing out with money, and making results, but how does everything change. it will be interesting.

meanwhile. I'll invest slowly in my FF gear, and enjoy...so I think that anyone can dislike or disagree as they like, You should go for 11-18 and K-P or what ever APS-C, and be happy. If FF was not for you, then why to complain. Move on
12-22-2017, 01:15 AM   #2294
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@banep:
Maybe your country is not relevant nor representative for the global Pentax market, in which case you should be careful not to generalize. Maybe your "decent number of Pentax users" aren't ready (or able) to make the jump to the 2000 euro zone.
Too bad Ricoh isn't willing to do more for the small markets, even if it would be a cost. Though I wonder what could be done...
12-22-2017, 02:21 AM   #2295
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QuoteOriginally posted by banep Quote
Welcome to EU.

---------- Post added 12-21-17 at 10:51 PM ----------

It's not so hard these days to make ff ultra-wide primes

New: Yongnuo YN 14mm f/2.8 ultra-wide prime lens | Photo Rumors

Except in Pentax...
You'd be the first to make fun of Pentax if they came with such a lens, if lens is a proper word.
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