Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Closed Thread
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-17-2018, 08:22 AM   #2596
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Lawrence, KS
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,494
Somebody needs to sensibly price a good copy of the FA*24 into my hands then. ebay prices I'm seeing on that lens are crazy of late.

01-17-2018, 08:57 AM - 3 Likes   #2597
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North East of England
Posts: 8,230
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
One could easily see this kind of post as bragging about how much you spend to people who don't spend as much. This kind of post belongs in a Sony thread in the non-Pentax forum, where we talk about Sony cameras, as long as we don't want to talk about how much they cost, compared to Pentax product.
I didn't see Winder's post as bragging, Norm I think he was just relating his experience, and it shouldn't bother us how much or how little anyone spends (if they have that kind of money to spend on the hobby, all power to them... I'd do the same if I was in that situation ).

The way I read the post, it was in response to Rondec's suggestion that recouping R&D on new lenses would probably be slower than on the K-1 - and suggesting that Pentax lenses aren't in particularly high demand. I dispute that, but it's a valid opinion that supported something already raised in the thread. If we were to continue discussing Sony repeatedly in this thread, I'd probably view that as off-topic. Let's see how it goes, eh?

If you have anything you want to talk to the moderating team about, Norm, drop us a line via the Moderator Contact Form

...

All - let's keep things friendly and civil, yes?

Thank you
01-17-2018, 10:02 AM   #2598
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,494
QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
but it gives you an edge over the smartphone )
And I can't believe how many entry level DSLR users start off by saying "I want more than what I can get from my smart phone."

QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
- something to make their photos stand out -
Funny, how for so many photographers the equipment just isn't that important. For others the equipment is very important. Just as a rule of thumb, I see a lot more excellent images from those who don't seem to fret much about their gear.

I was thinking about that on the dog walk this morning. There are a number of photographers who just thinking of their names I have 4 or 5 excellent images in my head. Images they took that made an impression. MIkeSF is easily in the lead in that department. He's shooting a 645z and stitching. I just don't know why people expect to get a lot more out of 35mm than they are now. Trying to squeeze out that last little bit of IQ before they go larger format I guess. But if you shoot 35mm, there are larger and better options technically for enhanced IQ. You are not the top of the heap that way, no matter what 35mm you buy.

SO really composition and artistic appeal are all you have going for you. That's the only thing that is going to make a 645z user look at your image and say "that's a nice image." Competing to have the best of 35mm is kind of like artificially limiting the size of the pond so you don't have to compete with the big boys.

Some people go to better systems because they have accomplished everything they can in a smaller format. Some just have a tendency to favour large format photography because the type of photography they do is more suited to it. , some just buy it because they have the money and it interests them. Take advice from the first two. I'm seriously waiting for some images from this lens to pique my interest. The first ones look quite promising. Sharp and very good bokeh. That doesn't come cheap.

To my way of thinking, I'd like to have one really good lens even if most of what I own is average. Just to understand how much (if any) difference it would make.

And I'm still really sceptical about that.

Once you have a DFA 28-105 and DA*60-250, any increase in IQ after that comes at a huge premium.

Last edited by normhead; 01-17-2018 at 10:50 AM.
01-17-2018, 10:14 AM   #2599
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 17,331
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I just sold several of my Pentax lenses on e-bay as I transition over to Sony as my main system. The Sony lenses are all more expensive than the Pentax/Sigma lenses that I was selling, so My idea was to sell on e-bay and buy used Sony on e-bay. I listed my 31mm LTD 3 times before getting a bid. Of the 3 times I listed it the highest number of people watching the lens was 6. After several weeks of my 31mm sitting on e-bay it sold for $650 to the only person who bid on it. I attempted to buy the Sony-Zeiss 35mm F/1.4 FE on e-bay, but there were very few for sale. The ones I did bid on ended up with 20-30 bids on them and the prices ranged from $1,200 - $1,400. I finally just bought a new copy from B&H for $1,499.

My Sigma 85mm in K-mount actually held its value better than the Pentax glass. I paid $899 for that lens new and sold it for $725. The Sigma 85mm had the most bids and watchers of any of the lenses I sold.

Nothing scientific about this, just my experience. The cost of switching over is going to end up being a lot higher than expected simply because there is very little demand for Pentax glass.

Ricoh needs to find a way to keep the brand relevant. They make really great equipment and they are very close to having some of the best you can buy, but they have to solve some really big problems. Since switching to the A9 as my primary camera I have had nothing but a great experience with the performance of the camera. No frustration with AF or buffer. Image quality is excellent.
For whatever reason, Sony seems to have some of the worst (most expensive) new prices for top end glass. Also, they don't have as long a history of FE mount lenses and so there aren't many used copies of those lenses running around either. I think you could make switch to Canon or Nikon for a more reasonable amount if you are buying used glass.

As far as Pentax glass selling, I think the Marketplace is usually the best option, but often lenses do sit for awhile before they move. Regardless, I'm glad the move has been good for you. The A9 is a serious camera and certainly is more than enough for most situations I can think of.

01-17-2018, 12:01 PM   #2600
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
ffking's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Poole
Posts: 2,439
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Funny, how for so many photographers the equipment just isn't that important. For others the equipment is very important. Just as a rule of thumb, I see a lot more excellent images from those who don't seem to fret much about their gear.

I was thinking about that on the dog walk this morning. There are a number of photographers who just thinking of their names I have 4 or 5 excellent images in my head. Images they took that made an impression. MIkeSF is easily in the lead in that department. He's shooting a 645z and stitching. I just don't know why people expect to get a lot more out of 35mm than they are now. Trying to squeeze out that last little bit of IQ before they go larger format I guess. But if you shoot 35mm, there are larger and better options technically for enhanced IQ. You are not the top of the heap that way, no matter what 35mm you buy.

SO really composition and artistic appeal are all you have going for you. That's the only thing that is going to make a 645z user look at your image and say "that's a nice image." Competing to have the best of 35mm is kind of like artificially limiting the size of the pond so you don't have to compete with the big boys.

Some people go to better systems because they have accomplished everything they can in a smaller format. Some just have a tendency to favour large format photography because the type of photography they do is more suited to it. , some just buy it because they have the money and it interests them. Take advice from the first two. I'm seriously waiting for some images from this lens to pique my interest. The first ones look quite promising. Sharp and very good bokeh. That doesn't come cheap.

To my way of thinking, I'd like to have one really good lens even if most of what I own is average. Just to understand how much (if any) difference it would make.

And I'm still really sceptical about that.
And what did your dog have to say about all that?

Speaking from personal experience, I moved from 35mm to MF (67) for landscape back in the 90s and really enjoyed the difference it made to the tonal gradations and detail - absolutely loved it - and although I'd always wanted a Pentax 67, I think I was good enough to justify the move when I made it. I kept the 35mm (Z-1) plus a 400mm and 100mm macro for wildlife and a 28-105mm for walkabout. So yes, it's very much horses for courses - even tiny format Minox had a use, if you were a spy

I've sort of stuck to that formula of using the K-3 for wildlife and the K-1 for everything else -but I definitely the larger sensor in the same way (to a lesser degree) that I valued MF.

Those of us (ie almost all of us) who go back the the film days remember the 645 as taking portrait orientation shots and so being more naturally a portrait and studio camera - apart from having no where near enough spare cash to buy one - I still can't help seeing it as a portrait and studio camera, and that's the photography I do least of.

I do think that it's a very good rule to only upgrade when you feel you've reached a place where you've hit he limitations of your equipment for the sort of photography you want to do, though.

Oddly enough, as I mentioned in the post you quoted, lenses with a particular character, such as the 31mm Ltd, can buck this trend and allow you to get something altogether different out of your camera - again, if that's what you want.

What's always wrong, or likely to lead to disappointment, as you suggest, is going in blind and thinking that just because a lens or camera is a great bit of kit it will immediately improve your photographs - there's that little factor again of only if it fills the gap that's holding you back.
01-17-2018, 12:39 PM   #2601
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,124
The advantage of having one high quality product promised but not released is that you keep customers hanging on the brand, without having to spend much. Time allows to also continue sales of existing products. Pretty smart for showing positive bottom line, but also pretty deadly for the market share.
01-17-2018, 12:44 PM   #2602
Pentaxian
D1N0's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: ---
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,726
QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Well, some think that K-1 do already.
IQ wise yeah, but not AF speed or fps.
01-17-2018, 12:45 PM   #2603
Banned




Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Posts: 10,411
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And I can't believe how many entry level DSLR users start off by saying "I want more than what I can get from my smart phone."



Funny, how for so many photographers the equipment just isn't that important. For others the equipment is very important. Just as a rule of thumb, I see a lot more excellent images from those who don't seem to fret much about their gear.

I was thinking about that on the dog walk this morning. There are a number of photographers who just thinking of their names I have 4 or 5 excellent images in my head. Images they took that made an impression. MIkeSF is easily in the lead in that department. He's shooting a 645z and stitching. I just don't know why people expect to get a lot more out of 35mm than they are now. Trying to squeeze out that last little bit of IQ before they go larger format I guess. But if you shoot 35mm, there are larger and better options technically for enhanced IQ. You are not the top of the heap that way, no matter what 35mm you buy.

SO really composition and artistic appeal are all you have going for you. That's the only thing that is going to make a 645z user look at your image and say "that's a nice image." Competing to have the best of 35mm is kind of like artificially limiting the size of the pond so you don't have to compete with the big boys.

Some people go to better systems because they have accomplished everything they can in a smaller format. Some just have a tendency to favour large format photography because the type of photography they do is more suited to it. , some just buy it because they have the money and it interests them. Take advice from the first two. I'm seriously waiting for some images from this lens to pique my interest. The first ones look quite promising. Sharp and very good bokeh. That doesn't come cheap.

To my way of thinking, I'd like to have one really good lens even if most of what I own is average. Just to understand how much (if any) difference it would make.

And I'm still really sceptical about that.

Once you have a DFA 28-105 and DA*60-250, any increase in IQ after that comes at a huge premium.
What you seem to be saying (again) is that those of us who want high quality modern designed lenses rather than glass that was designed with the help of abacuses are idiots.
Sorry, but that is, in my humble opinion, sophomoric junk.

---------- Post added 01-17-18 at 01:51 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The advantage of having one high quality product promised but not released is that you keep customers hanging on the brand, without having to spend much. Time allows to also continue sales of existing products. Pretty smart for showing positive bottom line, but also pretty deadly for the market share.
Except for the people who run out of patience and who don't have the investment of dozens of lenses in the brand. They jump ship.
Meanwhile you aren't offering anything to attract in new users, they are buying from the company that offers more than a few bloated zoom lenses.
At some point the strategy backfires.

---------- Post added 01-17-18 at 01:51 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The advantage of having one high quality product promised but not released is that you keep customers hanging on the brand, without having to spend much. Time allows to also continue sales of existing products. Pretty smart for showing positive bottom line, but also pretty deadly for the market share.
Except for the people who run out of patience and who don't have the investment of dozens of lenses in the brand. They jump ship.
Meanwhile you aren't offering anything to attract in new users, they are buying from the company that offers more than a few bloated zoom lenses.
At some point the strategy backfires.

01-17-2018, 12:52 PM   #2604
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
jlstrawman's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 616
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
For whatever reason, Sony seems to have some of the worst (most expensive) new prices for top end glass.
I agree, totally. I really enjoy using my Sony bodies, but there is no way I could ever justify spending what it takes to buy new Sony bodies or lenses.
I don't feel the need to have the latest / greatest. I also feel no reason to impress anyone with my equipment. I buy what I enjoy and what is good enough for
me, well-maintained used equipment. If you have patience, very good deals can be had, both Sony and Pentax.
01-17-2018, 12:59 PM - 1 Like   #2605
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,494
QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
And what did your dog have to say about all that?
Woof.
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Sorry, but that is, in my humble opinion, sophomoric junk.
Ya, well that isn't what I said so that's even more sorry than what you thought it was.

What I said was, if you really want higher IQ move up a format in size. A lens isn't likely to give you more than a 15% increase over kit. Going from APS-c to FF will give you an extra 30%. Going from APS-c to 645 crop will give you an extra 60%. You can buy all the awesome lenses you want but going up in size but for most things, a larger format is the way to go.

Using the new 50 1.4 on FF isn't going to give me as much IQ as using the MF 75mm I have in my cupboard on a 645z. That's what I said.

I guess you wanted me to say something else you you could tell everyone how stupid I am.

As for really high quality lenses, that's a niche market, for consumers that want lenses that cost more than their camera bodies. I'd like one, just for the experience, and out of curiosity. And if I really like it, who knows, I might save up for another.

What is it you want them for?

But we haven't even established that the DFA 50 1.4 is that type of lens. One our forum users converts Zeiss Milvus lenses for Pentax use. How do I know I won't want to go that route for my premium lens? How do I know this lens is even in the conversation? I have nothing against premium lenses despite the above slander. I just personally despite years on photography forums been able to understand what it is they bring to the table. As I said, as far as I'm concerned a novelty for the adventurous.

Have you seen Mike SF latest MF stitch. In answer to the "you can just stitch 35mm thing" well you can always stitch MF as well.

Mike SF's latest. You can do that on FF? Sure you can.
But the guy who took the time to do it actually decided it was worth his while to get MF as opposed to really expensive FF. Not everyone would favour that decision, but, it's still a good decision for some.

But lets look at what's likely. Not as good as a Zeiss Milvus but better than an FA 50 1.4., but probably no where near a 645z. SO where does that leave. it's pretty specific market. And I'll keep saying that until I buy one (if I buy one.) Then it will be a lens for every body.

Last edited by normhead; 01-17-2018 at 02:07 PM.
01-17-2018, 02:48 PM   #2606
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,110
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Meanwhile you aren't offering anything to attract in new users, they are buying from the company that offers more than a few bloated zoom lenses.
Well, this forum member joined us after ditching Canon.

IQ is important to him so he went for the 645Z, and bought a FF merely as a backup!

I feel the need. The need to.... simplify. - PentaxForums.com

Niche users buy what they need, and Pentax has been a niche brand for decades.
01-17-2018, 02:57 PM   #2607
Banned




Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Posts: 10,411
QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well, this forum member joined us after ditching Canon.

IQ is important to him so he went for the 645Z, and bought a FF merely as a backup!

I feel the need. The need to.... simplify. - PentaxForums.com

Niche users buy what they need, and Pentax has been a niche brand for decades.
Yup, and they seem to have become the niche brand for people who are happy as clams with lenses designed before the computer age and who are willing to denigrate anyone who doesn't goose step along with them.

It's quite sad.
01-17-2018, 03:01 PM - 2 Likes   #2608
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Lawrence, KS
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,494
Who cares when the lens was designed if they get the optical qualities they want? Why would you worry about that?
01-17-2018, 03:07 PM - 1 Like   #2609
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,494
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Yup, and they seem to have become the niche brand for people who are happy as clams with lenses designed before the computer age and who are willing to denigrate anyone who doesn't goose step along with them.

It's quite sad.
Actually what's quite sad is that you'd feel denigrated over someone's personal opinion of the value of commercial product. You're taking identifying with a product (that isn't even available and you have never seen), to a whole new level.

Now anyone who doesn't agree with you is denigrating you. That is sad.

Oh I get it, we are denigrating you because we don't take your word as gospel and have adopted a "let's have a look and see" approach.

Personally I find band wagon fans who assume every new lens is the latest greatest thing since sliced bread to be far more annoying than folks who love the old lenses they've actually used and found to be tried and true.

But I get it, it was designed by a computer. Every lens designed by a computer is great lens. I'm being overwhelmed by desire to express some sarcasm here.

There's no need to evaluate lenses any more folks. They are designed by computers that cannot fail. Just pay the price and lap them up.

Damn, the desire took over there for a moment. I'm OK now.

Does anyone know, has their ever been a lens designed completely by a computer. ? Like where someone types in "new top quality 50mm 1.4 lens" and the computer does all the rest? Is there even one?

The lens designers tell me the computers make it easier to calculate the results of a design, speeding up the process. I haven't heard that a computer can actually design the lens in the first place, but then, what do I know?

For the amount of time it takes Pentax to put out a lens, maybe they don't even use computers. Think how slow they'd be if there were no computers, Frightening, I say.

Last edited by normhead; 01-17-2018 at 03:17 PM.
01-17-2018, 03:19 PM - 3 Likes   #2610
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,110
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Yup, and they seem to have become the niche brand for people who are happy as clams with lenses designed before the computer age and who are willing to denigrate anyone who doesn't goose step along with them.

It's quite sad.
You just contradicted yourself, Wheatfield.

They're happy, and yet you're sad.

Just jump brand, champ, like Mee, Jogiba, Osv, et al ... it's your money.

People who've switched to Pentax like Gyroscope are fresh air. A joy to read their posts.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, drive, dslr, effort, f/1.4, f1.8, fa, im, k-1, lens, lenses, management, omega, opinion, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, people, photo, product, quality, ricoh, sigma, size, statistics, tamron, taste, theory, time
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Diglloyd reviews DA 35, DFA 50 and DFA 100 Macro lenses on the K-1 Matchete Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 19 06-09-2016 09:18 AM
Sigma 50/1.4 EX vs. Pentax FA 50/1.4 and DA 55/1.4 DonovanDwyer Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 17 01-24-2014 12:54 PM
For Sale - Sold: Sigma 10-20mm/4, Pentax FA 50/1.4, DFA 100mm/2.8 Macro Alam Sold Items 5 11-20-2011 03:02 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:48 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top