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01-25-2018, 09:04 AM - 1 Like   #2791
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Can I ask, are you going to buy the DFA50/1.4, Bill? I mean, assuming it's as good as everyone's expecting, and you still own your K-1 by then?
I already have my order in with my local store, and have been in touch with the local rep. I've had a very good relationship with the company over the decades I've been using Pentax, good enough that I am sometimes given pre production lenses to use for a few days at a time to give them feedback about.

I've been a Pentax user since the mid 1980s, and own over 60 Pentax brand lenses at the moment, along with a boatload of accessories purchased when Pentax was a full system. I had a big sell off when I bought the K1 and let go of most of the APS-C lenses that I owned. IIRC, I sold off 7 lenses at that time. I still have the 35 LTD and the 70 LTD. I kept the 35 so that I would have a standard lens for the K3, which I still own, and for some reason, the 70mm just didn't sell.

I also still have 3 LX bodies, a very spiffy black MX (it looks like it was never used), and a few other film bodies.

As much as you might be disappointed to read this, I'm not going anywhere.


Last edited by Wheatfield; 01-25-2018 at 09:17 AM.
01-25-2018, 09:32 AM   #2792
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I already have my order in with my local store, and have been in touch with the local rep. I've had a very good relationship with the company over the decades I've been using Pentax, good enough that I am sometimes given pre production lenses to use for a few days at a time to give them feedback about.

I've been a Pentax user since the mid 1980s, and own over 60 Pentax brand lenses at the moment, along with a boatload of accessories purchased when Pentax was a full system. I had a big sell off when I bought the K1 and let go of most of the APS-C lenses that I owned. IIRC, I sold off 7 lenses at that time. I still have the 35 LTD and the 70 LTD. I kept the 35 so that I would have a standard lens for the K3, which I still own, and for some reason, the 70mm just didn't sell.

I also still have 3 LX bodies, a very spiffy black MX (it looks like it was never used), and a few other film bodies.

As much as you might be disappointed to read this, I'm not going anywhere.
Do you konw how much the order price?
01-25-2018, 09:55 AM   #2793
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QuoteOriginally posted by OoKU Quote
Do you konw how much the order price?
No, sorry. I'm expecting it to be around Can$1000.00 though.
01-25-2018, 10:07 AM   #2794
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
No, sorry. I'm expecting it to be around Can$1000.00 though.
That's impossible
I predict $1399 dollars(about Can $ 1799).

01-25-2018, 10:17 AM   #2795
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Even that might be slightly overoptimistic, at least when talking about the launch price
It's a high-end, no compromise lens. Those things aren't cheap.
01-25-2018, 10:24 AM   #2796
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QuoteOriginally posted by OoKU Quote
That's impossible
I predict $1399 dollars(about Can $ 1799).
I'm just going on what the going rate seems to be for similar products. It might end up being priced more like the f/1.2 offerings from the other manufacturers, which is what you are predicting. I suspect it will be closer in price to things like the Sigma 50/1.4, which is going for about Can$1100.00 these days.
The price they put on it will be what it is, I'm not too concerned.
01-25-2018, 10:43 AM - 1 Like   #2797
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I already have my order in with my local store...
...
As much as you might be disappointed to read this, I'm not going anywhere.
I'm not disappointed at all, Bill I'd rather you stay, believe it or not.

I'd certainly have found it easier to understand if you were quitting Ricoh / Pentax soon, though. I find it odd that you frequently make off-hand, non-constructive, disparaging remarks about them, whilst intending to stay with their equipment... It's not like you're fire-bombing prior to departure like we sometimes see on these forums. Instead, you're actively damaging the brand reputation of the gear you intend to stay with, and a company whom you need to succeed. With respect, I just find that really, really bizarre. Kind of like being in love with someone, yet constantly putting them down when you talk about them to others...
01-25-2018, 10:54 AM - 2 Likes   #2798
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I'm not disappointed at all, Bill I'd rather you stay, believe it or not.

I'd certainly have found it easier to understand if you were quitting Ricoh / Pentax soon, though. I find it odd that you frequently make off-hand, non-constructive, disparaging remarks about them, whilst intending to stay with their equipment... It's not like you're fire-bombing prior to departure like we sometimes see on these forums. Instead, you're actively damaging the brand reputation of the gear you intend to stay with, and a company whom you need to succeed. With respect, I just find that really, really bizarre. Kind of like being in love with someone, yet constantly putting them down when you talk about them to others...
I prefer to think of it as urging on an underperforming coworker who has, in the past, shown great potential but is going through a bit of a slump at the moment.
I don't see the constant cheerleading as being constructive, as that shows that their base is listless and complacent. Make a little noise, tell Ricoh that we expect and demand better from them.
Telling them that we have everything we need in lenses that were designed decades ago will not spur them on to bigger and better things.

---------- Post added 01-25-18 at 12:00 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Even that might be slightly overoptimistic, at least when talking about the launch price
It's a high-end, no compromise lens. Those things aren't cheap.
I suspect that if it's priced like the Zeiss Milvus, it will have a very small market penetration in an already very small market. Of course, they could price it like the Otus, in which case it will have a user base of exactly one slightly deranged Canadian. I don't think they can price it more expensive than the Milvus, which at the moment is Can$1649.00. I would prefer to see it going for a bit less than that, but it is a lens that I am not especially price sensitive about.

01-25-2018, 11:05 AM   #2799
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I prefer to think of it as urging on an underperforming coworker who has, in the past, shown great potential but is going through a bit of a slump at the moment.
I don't see the constant cheerleading as being constructive, as that shows that their base is listless and complacent. Make a little noise, tell Ricoh that we expect and demand better from them.
Telling them that we have everything we need in lenses that were designed decades ago will not spur them on to bigger and better things.
Well, I may not always agree with the way you go about it, Bill, but I certainly agree with your reasoning here. Maybe we have more common ground than I realised

Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-25-2018 at 11:33 AM.
01-25-2018, 11:08 AM   #2800
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I prefer to think of it as urging on an underperforming coworker who has, in the past, shown great potential but is going through a bit of a slump at the moment.
I don't see the constant cheerleading as being constructive, as that shows that their base is listless and complacent. Make a little noise, tell Ricoh that we expect and demand better from them.
Telling them that we have everything we need in lenses that were designed decades ago will not spur them on to bigger and better things.
I do agree on that with you sir. But I don't blame simply Ricoh on that, there is a long history of ignoring the userbase demands for Pentax cameras dating back to 80's and brand decline almost ended by Hoya.
01-25-2018, 11:16 AM - 2 Likes   #2801
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@Wheatfield:
Your strategy, if applied to a workplace, would be described in 2 words: toxic environment. If continued, it would be a sign to leave the company or team. Team members in a slump should be encouraged to solve their issue, not punished for it - which would only push them downwards.
Positive reinforcement works; negative reinforcement doesn't. Positive reinforcement being very different from pretending that everything's fine as it is, by the way.
And I'm sure the constant cheerleading you're talking about isn't for Pentax.

We'll see the exact price, for sure people that knows it are keeping quiet (the K-1's price was IIRC leaked quite a while before its release). But, Zeiss Milvus is not exactly the best comparison - and you shouldn't expect the high-end Pentax to be cheaper than it.
I'd rather use the Nikon 58mm f/1.4 and the Sony 50mm f/1.4. And if I'm mistaken, that means I already started saving for the next lens
(I'm still fooling myself that I won't buy it... for now...)

Last edited by Kunzite; 01-25-2018 at 11:24 AM.
01-25-2018, 11:19 AM   #2802
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
With respect, I just find that really, really bizarre.
A customer who complains is still a customer. When the customer is happy to post in the non-Pentax section it's too late for Pentax.
01-25-2018, 11:31 AM   #2803
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
@Wheatfield:
Your strategy, if applied to a workplace, would be described in 2 words: toxic environment. If continued, it would be a sign to leave the company or team. Team members in a slump should be encouraged to solve their issue, not punished for it - which would only push them downwards.
Positive reinforcement works; negative reinforcement doesn't. Positive reinforcement being very different from pretending that everything's fine as it is, by the way.
And I'm sure the constant cheerleading you're talking about isn't for Pentax.
We can agree to disagree. At some point, strong words are called for. This isn't toxic, this is merely reality.
QuoteQuote:
We'll see the exact price, for sure people that knows it are keeping quiet (the K-1's price was IIRC leaked quite a while before its release). But, Zeiss Milvus is not exactly the best comparison - and you shouldn't expect the high-end Pentax to be cheaper than it.
I'd rather use the Nikon 58mm f/1.4 and the Sony 50mm f/1.4. And if I'm mistaken, that means I already started saving for the next lens
(I'm still fooling myself that I won't buy it... for now...)
Where I am, the Milvus, the Nikon and the Sony are pretty much all the same price.
01-25-2018, 11:32 AM - 1 Like   #2804
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
When the customer is happy to post in the non-Pentax section it's too late for Pentax.
There are very few people who buy only Pentax equipment. Those who buy only Pentax cameras usually end up with one or more third-party lenses and/or accessories instead of the Pentax offerings. Some of us choose to buy third-party cameras too, complementing what we already own from Pentax.

Then again, those that post in the non-Pentax section and no longer own, or intend to own, Pentax gear are - using Bill's reasoning - helping Ricoh to appreciate that we all don't necessarily have everything we want and need from them just yet...
01-25-2018, 11:36 AM   #2805
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
A customer who complains is still a customer. When the customer is happy to post in the non-Pentax section it's too late for Pentax.
A baboon can run a company when things are going well. The true test is how a company handles customer complaints. The one I work for has an excellent record regarding ensuring customers are happy, including taking returns on product that the customer has wrecked beyond redemption.
We call it good customer relations, and it has made us very successful, even though we know we get taken advantage of from time to time. The genuine customers know that we will support them no matter what.
I worked for a company for a couple of years that had the customer service policies of Attila the Hun. They were also a crappy company to work for. That company is failing.

---------- Post added 01-25-18 at 12:40 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
There are very few people who buy only Pentax equipment. Those who buy only Pentax cameras usually end up with one or more third-party lenses and/or accessories instead of the Pentax offerings. Some of us choose to buy third-party cameras too, complementing what we already own from Pentax.

Then again, those that post in the non-Pentax section and no longer own, or intend to own, Pentax gear are - using Bill's reasoning - helping Ricoh to appreciate that we all don't necessarily have everything we want and need from them just yet...
If Pentax had made a fast standard lens for their APS-C cameras, I would still be a single system owner. But they didn't, and now I own some Fuji stuff that sees very little use (I use the X-T2 when I need a fast standard). The only reason I considered Fuji was because their lenses are of similar quality to Pentax lenses, something no other manufacturer has matched, in my opinion.
Note that I don't post in the Fuji forum, BTW. It's not where my interest lies.
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