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02-24-2018, 11:18 AM   #2926
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The sample D-FA*50mmƒ1.4AW images from the K-1 MarkII has this covet attached: *The lens used is Beta version, and the name is tentative.

02-24-2018, 01:06 PM   #2927
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I believe Tokina has always been a standalone company.
Well,

"Similarly, Hoya arenít planning to sell the lens-maker Tokina, which they also own, or to merge it with Pentax."

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/pentax_and_samsung_partnership_not_perfect/


02-24-2018, 06:17 PM   #2928
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So let me get this straight... Hoya owned Tokina but sold it to Kenko? I am having a hard time finding solid information.
02-24-2018, 07:20 PM   #2929
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QuoteQuote:
Pentax are less keen on pursuing the other professional alternative, a high-end 35mm full-frame camera. Mr Iue commented that the company had to choose between medium format and full-frame, as they could only afford to dedicate time and resources to one of them in the short to mid-term. As Pentax have already made a sizeable investment in medium format, they aren’t so far behind and could bring a product to market more quickly than with a pro-level 35mm DSLR. The cost of developing a range of lenses suitable for the demands of a full-frame sensor is also making Pentax think twice.
Interesting quote from September 2008.

02-24-2018, 09:28 PM   #2930
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well,

"Similarly, Hoya aren’t planning to sell the lens-maker Tokina, which they also own, or to merge it with Pentax."

Pentax and Samsung Partnership Not Perfect | PhotographyBLOG
That is a very old link, from Sept 2008.
I knew they were aligned with Kenko and had teamed up with Hoya for the purposes of marketing equipment at one time.
Their website mentions Kenko, as in KENKO TOKINA CO. LTD., but no mention of Hoya.
This old thread:
The structure of HOYA Corporation and myth about Tokina - PentaxForums.com
is less than enlightening as well, but does bring up some questions about the interviewer making a possible translation error.
Also, this brochure http://www.edvantek.com/PDFs/Tokina_FA_Catalog_V0_6_1%5B1%5D.pdf lists Kenko not Hoya as the shareholder

---------- Post added 02-24-18 at 10:30 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by rangercarp Quote
So let me get this straight... Hoya owned Tokina but sold it to Kenko? I am having a hard time finding solid information.
I suspect there is probably some relationship between the companies, in much the same way there is a relationship between Nikon and the company that brought us Pearl Harbour, but outright ownership? I don't think so, and I don't think there ever was.

Last edited by Wheatfield; 02-24-2018 at 09:43 PM.
02-24-2018, 10:53 PM   #2931
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
That is a very old link, from Sept 2008.
I knew they were aligned with Kenko and had teamed up with Hoya for the purposes of marketing equipment at one time.
Their website mentions Kenko, as in KENKO TOKINA CO. LTD., but no mention of Hoya.
All interesting, Wheatfield.

CameraWiki claims:

"In May of 1971 the company changed its name toTokina Optical Co. Ltd.The company was later acquired byKenkoin March of 1999.[4][5]. Kenko also purchased optical glass manufacturerHoya, whose glass was used by Tokina Optical. The combined company is now known asKenko Tokina Co., Ltd. The US branches of the companies,Tokina Optical Corporation USAand Kenko Company USA had previously merged in 1993 to formTHK Photo Products, Inc.The lettersTHKcomes fromTokina,Hoya,Kenko.[6]With the latter Tokina was merged in 2011 into Kenko-Tokina."
02-24-2018, 11:29 PM   #2932
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The new trend is that third party lens makers (we could also call them "pure play lens makers") have now switched from the "cheaper" business model (what was the selling point of Sigma and Tamron a decade ago), to a model of higher quality lenses that outperform OEM lenses: typically Sigma Art, Tamron G1 and G2, and now Tokina Opera. Now for a small brand like Pentax, rebranding of premium third party lenses bring the Pentax system at the top quality end directly. Sony seem to be also using that outsourcing business model with their partnership with Zeiss. We've seen how the Tamron 15-30 is on par with some of the best OEM UWA zooms such as the Nikkor 12-24. By rebranding the Tamron 15-30 lens with in camera software correction, Pentax gets the best glass at a much lower R&D expense, that's indeed a very smart move. Dowside of sharing third party lens dev. is difficulty to have a reliable lens roadmap.
02-24-2018, 11:42 PM   #2933
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What was said at the time but unverified was that Tokina was owned by a couple guy who also owned part of Hoya.
But Tokina being privately owned, no way to check exactly what was the realtion between Tokina and Kenko and Hoya.

02-25-2018, 12:16 AM   #2934
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
What was said at the time but unverified was that Tokina was owned by a couple guy who also owned part of Hoya.
But Tokina being privately owned, no way to check exactly what was the realtion between Tokina and Kenko and Hoya.
Yep, they're not publicly listed, they don't have to divulge much.

02-25-2018, 01:20 AM   #2935
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Dowside of sharing third party lens dev. is difficulty to have a reliable lens roadmap.
And also a smaller share of the profits from sales of said lens - unless that is why the Pentax Tamrons cost more than the Tamron versions, simply maintaining profit margins? Probably a bit of both.
02-25-2018, 01:20 AM   #2936
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well,

"Similarly, Hoya arenít planning to sell the lens-maker Tokina, which they also own, or to merge it with Pentax."

Pentax and Samsung Partnership Not Perfect | PhotographyBLOG
it's just journalist fantasy.
02-25-2018, 01:32 AM   #2937
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If there was some cooperation between Pentax/Ricoh and Tokina, then it wouldnít surprise me that they helped out with the 11-18/2.8. Pentax has not made an ultra wide rectilinear zoom in the digital era, and when you consider the staff losses under Hoya, they may be lacking in expertise in that area. The 50mm is right up Pentaxís ally on the other hand, from the few shots we have seen its definitly got Pentax DNA.
So maybe they got together to help each other out, they may not even be sharing optical formulas, just expertise.
02-25-2018, 01:33 AM   #2938
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There is a prescription safety glasses vendor inside the factory where I work. It was originally supported by 3M. Last year Hoya took it over. I just got 2 new pair of safety glasses there, identical to the 3M glasses I got several years ago, save for Hoya's logo on the paperwork and the cases for the eyewear.
02-25-2018, 02:00 AM - 2 Likes   #2939
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The new trend is that third party lens makers (we could also call them "pure play lens makers") have now switched from the "cheaper" business model (what was the selling point of Sigma and Tamron a decade ago), to a model of higher quality lenses that outperform OEM lenses: typically Sigma Art, Tamron G1 and G2, and now Tokina Opera. Now for a small brand like Pentax, rebranding of premium third party lenses bring the Pentax system at the top quality end directly. Sony seem to be also using that outsourcing business model with their partnership with Zeiss. We've seen how the Tamron 15-30 is on par with some of the best OEM UWA zooms such as the Nikkor 12-24. By rebranding the Tamron 15-30 lens with in camera software correction, Pentax gets the best glass at a much lower R&D expense, that's indeed a very smart move. Dowside of sharing third party lens dev. is difficulty to have a reliable lens roadmap.
Itís likely much more widespread among camera companies than one thinks, looking in from the outside. Running a large lens department would be a crippling expense for a smaller company. So the only way to ensure a new project launches with at least a basic set of lenses is to mix and match the sourcing: a couple in-house, some rebadged, others via shared co-op development. The quality bar is much higher today, too. Modern high resolution sensors demand it and generally a decade of progress means that buyers expect very high quality almost as routine, so buying in cheap Ďní cheerful beer glasses or relying on third-party ones is not an option in the way it might have been a few years ago. Each item has to be very, very good.

Thereís no surprise that Pentax are working with Tamron, Tokina and perhaps others too. I donít think it matters. What really does matter is that the final item has real quality. Thereís no reason to buy it otherwise.
02-25-2018, 03:44 AM   #2940
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well,

"Similarly, Hoya aren’t planning to sell the lens-maker Tokina, which they also own, or to merge it with Pentax."

Pentax and Samsung Partnership Not Perfect | PhotographyBLOG
QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
(...)
CameraWiki claims:

"In May of 1971 the company changed its name toTokina Optical Co. Ltd.The company was later acquired by Kenko in March of 1999.[4][5]. Kenko also purchased optical glass manufacturer Hoya, whose glass was used by Tokina Optical. The combined company is now known as Kenko Tokina Co., Ltd. The US branches of the companies,Tokina Optical Corporation USAand Kenko Company USA had previously merged in 1993 to formTHK Photo Products, Inc.The lettersTHKcomes fromTokina,Hoya,Kenko.[6]With the latter Tokina was merged in 2011 into Kenko-Tokina."
Hoya are a listed company, therefore Kenko cannot have "purchased optical glass manufacturer Hoya".

Kenko-Tokina's group company chart: Group Company Chart- Kenko Global Site See also Company History- Kenko Global Site

There is no reference to Kenko or Tokina in the various financial statements published by Hoya Corporation. By the way, I found in one of these documents that PENTAX CEBU PHILIPPINES CORPORATION is still 100% owned by Hoya. Contrary to the other subsidiaries of Hoya which have Pentax in their name, this one is associated with "Imaging related products", not "Medical related products".
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