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02-23-2017, 09:14 AM   #466
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
Now that there is some indication of its size, I estimate the price to be 1500 euros locally. That is, when compared to 55/1.4* SDM which sells for ~700-800 euros here.
That has got to be one of the most curious ways to estimate such a thing as the introductory street price of a piece of hardware. Why not compare it to that new Tamron 45mm hot rod lens, the Sigma 50 Art, and whatever Canon and Nikon offer in a 50 f1.4 at the higher end of their line and not just nifty fifty's.

And it might very well be 1500euro when it shows up in shops in your neck of the woods but at least use some kind of data.

EDIT: I just did this and here's what I got using BH pricing here in US bucks;

Tamron 45 f1.8 for Canon - $600 (Not sure if it was fair to include this lens)
Canon 50 f1.2 L - $1300
Sigma 50 f1.4 ART for Canon - $950
Zeiss 50 f1.4 Milvus for Canon - $1200
Nikon 50 f1.4 G AF-S - $1600 (What is with Nikon's selection of 50's? I never look at their lenses and they have a pile of 50's, all of which look really old, and then this really expensive thing)

Average: $1130. So my guess? Intro street pricing of $1200 here in the USA when the DFA*50 shows up in stores.


Last edited by pres589; 02-23-2017 at 09:26 AM.
02-23-2017, 09:19 AM   #467
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
Now that there is some indication of its size, I estimate the price to be 1500 euros locally. That is, when compared to 55/1.4* SDM which sells for ~700-800 euros here.
As far as I can tell, as long as we don't mind the slow focussing SDM motor the 55 1.4 will still be the choice for many users who'd like a 1.4 lens for daylight portraiture etc.. What's not to like?

If you are pushing the limits of low light AF I'm sure the new design will be better, and there are a few of us who need that. Even I need it once a year.
02-23-2017, 09:23 AM   #468
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
The ultrawide appears to be undetermined at this point.. hence the wide band ranging from 12mm to 24mm. It could be anywhere in there. I suspect it will be 20mm. I realize I could be wrong
I suspect you're right about 20mm --- though of course we can't be sure. I would hope for a slowish aperture (f2.8), to keep size and price down. This is a lens badly needed by landscape photographers who are using the DFA 28-105 and need something wider but can't handle something as big and expensive (and lacking filter rings!) as the DFA 15-30.

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Interestingly, the band for the D-FA telephoto reaches from 65mm. So they might exceed the 70-300 a teency bit in upclose range. Not a 70-200 f/4 but I'll take what I can get.
I suspect a 70-300 f4-5.6 as well, to partner with the DFA 28-105.

QuoteOriginally posted by shakereduced Quote
Interesting. They switched which wide lens will have a large aperture. The previous roadmap had the ultrawide as a large aperture lens and the wide angle lens didn't mention aperture, but now the wide angle has that designation while the ultrawide doesn't.
That ultrawide large aperture lens on the older roadmap looked like a DFA* 24/1.4. That would have been a very large and expensive ultra-speciality lens. A DFA* 35/1.4, while still large and expensive (although not as expensive) provides a more useful focal length and hence makes more sense, giving Pentax FF an impressive, best of class high-end f1.4 trio to go along with the f2.8 trio of zooms. I won't be buying any of these lenses, as I don't need fast aperture high-end glass for what I do. But I'm glad Pentax is finally filling this very huge gap in their line-up. Nor is this necessarily an either-or proposition, with Pentax abandoning their small lens/special rendering past. From pentax.com we find this:

QuoteQuote:
It’s common practice in the camera industry to divide a lens lineup into flagship models and popular versions, based on optical performance and durability. However, PENTAX has a different way of categorizing its lenses. Although it does offer the high-grade Star series of lenses, some PENTAX enthusiasts claim that the Star series models are the best lenses available, while others insist that the Limited series lenses are more perfectly designed for picture-taking. In other words, PENTAX divides its lenses into different series based on distinctive characteristics, rather than rankings based on specifications. This is because PENTAX wants photographers to take notice of the specific image description of each lens, and find the enjoyment of making the best use of it. That’s how PENTAX built its lens lineup.

“Today, we are developing the D FA-series lenses by listening to the opinions and suggestions of our users, and making whatever changes and improvements we can at the moment,” says the optics designer. “However, in the future we hope to build a more comprehensive lineup that allows users to select a lens based on the type of image description they want, just like a distinction between the Star series and the Limited series. It would also be interesting to design a lens that produces a particularly sharp image at a certain focal range, while yielding above-average image description from the minimum focusing distance to infinity.”
02-23-2017, 09:26 AM   #469
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
I didn't mean to insult you. Just, maybe, hold out more information as to why it's so large? Like "It's a no-excuses attempt by Pentax engineers to provide a well corrected lens that can compete with companies most of us wouldn't consider due to cost or availability. Small size is not a design priority vs. image quality and 'speed'." You've stated as much multiple times in this crazy discussion thread.
Sorry if i misread you

Most likely it is because they want to make lenses with the newest technology in glass, to get best out from the K-1 sensor and the sensor in the coming pro level cameras. Im sure somebody can explain more in detail then me but the newer sensors have newer technology and demands more of the lenses then just few years ago.

02-23-2017, 09:46 AM   #470
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
I did not say I find the lens unappealing, and there were _three_ categories in my post, only one of which was "test chart jockey". Do note that my definition of "pro" is fairly wide - if you have enough photographic experience to determine that you have a genuine photographic need for one of these lenses, you are definitely a "pro" in my book. If you have lots of money and simply want the "best" - in this case, "best" usually means "best reviewed" - fifty money can buy, size no object, then by all means, go ahead, too!



You certainly can, and I hope you do! I hope Ricoh sells tons of these.
Your three categories are - pros, review snobs and test chart junkies. In what world does a new wide standard lens can only be appealing to those? BTW, a pro can be a review snob and a test chart junkie, now your categories are all mixed up?

What I'm saying is that you're painting with too broad of a stroke. People can find all sorts of reasons to get this lens, and actually they don't even need any reasons (if they can afford it) because everyone pays for their own gear and its not anyone's place to categorize them on merits of their purchase decisions
02-23-2017, 09:52 AM   #471
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On the surface this fifty looks to be the Sigma 50mm ƒ1.4 Art lens. For me personally this type of lens is just to large for how I operate.

One benefit this lens will bring over the FA 50 and FA LTD's is Quick-Shift focus. This really is a pleasure of the DA lenses and one avenue were the FA LTD's need to be updated.
02-23-2017, 09:55 AM   #472
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It looks nothing like the Sigma Art, besides at least the filter thread is different (I expect elements count and grouping to be different, too - that doesn't stop people from pretending the D FA* 70-200mm is a Tamron, though...)

An interesting detail - for the sample presented under glass at CP+, the inscription after "Pentax D FA* 1:1.4 50mm" was blackened out. Which means it was there in the first place
[??] ???????????CP+?????D FA? 50mm F1.4?????????(13/28) - ???? Watch
02-23-2017, 09:56 AM   #473
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So Pentax lineup will have
DA 50mm f1.8 - affordable, small, APSC, but also acceptable on FF
DFA 50mm f2.8 macro - macro lens, brutally sharp, FF
FA 50mm f1.4 (is this one officially discontinued yet??) - compact, FF, f1.4, fairly popular but "old" design
DFA 50mm f1.4 - big, fast aperture, playing against Zeiss Otus and Sigma 50mm art.
DA* 55mm f1.4 - pretty compact for what it is, made especially for portraits and mostly for ASPC; but still fine on FF

So this range is really well-covered by primes. I wonder which ones will get discontinued when the new DFA 50mm hits the shelves.


Last edited by Na Horuk; 02-23-2017 at 10:32 AM.
02-23-2017, 10:00 AM   #474
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
After five years, I now tentatively translate "DA Wide Zoom" as Japan-corporate-speak for:

"We are not abandoning APS-C and there will be new DA lenses, so we don't want to have a completely empty APS-C roadmap, because then you'd freak out. But those lenses we are working on, well, we don't want to tell you about them yet. Heck, we might not even know what they will be because we're currently super busy making much needed new full frame lenses on a very small R&D budget. So we're leaving that DA Wide Zoom on there as a placeholder. Yeah, that specific lens, it's probably never going to happen. We were going to rebadge the Tokina 12-28mm F/4, but that kinda fell through. Can't tell you why. But we are not abandoning you, APS-C shooter! So stick around and buy a KP!"

Of all of the DA zooms, the one which was designed by Tokina (which they still pay licensing fees on) is the DA 12-24. I think Pentax has had a background project to have their own design for a lens in this focal range so that it is their own lens and not Tokina's.

That said, with all of the focus on full frame currently, I am sure that project is in the background and will not be taken care of till the full frame lenses come out.
02-23-2017, 10:01 AM   #475
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I suggested that this might be a rebadge/rebuild of the Sigma 50 Art by Ricoh and got a lot of less than favorable feedback. Time will tell on that. kenspo wasn't very supportive of my suggestion in particular.

I really doubt that the FA Ltd's will get any updates. If they get some changes, like quick shift or in-lens focusing motors, they will be renamed something like DFA Limited and they'll probably get other updates like HD coatings and rounded aperture blades (if they don't already have such blades).
02-23-2017, 10:07 AM   #476
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Average: $1130. So my guess? Intro street pricing of $1200 here in the USA when the DFA*50 shows up in stores.
That is wishful thinking. For a fair benchmark you need to check the latest OEM lens of that spec. If I am not wrong, that would be the 4 year old Sony, which initially sold for 1500 EUR - four years ago, pre the last +20% price rises.
So an average starting price around 1800 EUR / $1900 is a fair assumption, especially considerung the Sony was not a *-type lens.

The Nikon 58/1.4 was at 1720 EUR initially, which would suggest a current starting price of 1,999 EUR or $2,100.

If Pentax want to go really cheap, then yes, maybe they start out at $1500 for the first two years for the DFA 50.
But then *-lenses never were offered on the cheap side of things, so the direction of $2000 is much more like it.
02-23-2017, 10:08 AM - 1 Like   #477
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I don't understand, why people keep saying it's a rebadge of the Sigma art? Anyone had an optical design on their hands? Didn't person just above mentioned that filter thread size is different, implying it's not a rebadge?
02-23-2017, 10:12 AM   #478
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
How is it measured? Those lenses aren't tested at dxo with the k-1, and I have no other point of reference personally. Can you share your method of testing, I'd be very interested just to understand the principle behind it without just using dxo as a reference.
Funny reading "DxO" and "reference" in the same sentence...

I don't put any faith in DxO's results and opinions, because of how they test lenses. And mostly because of the erroneous and blanket evaluations they make.

You appear to have missed my point. The point is not how to measure a lens's sharpness. The point is that absolute sharpness does not make a great lens.
02-23-2017, 10:14 AM - 1 Like   #479
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
I don't understand, why people keep saying it's a rebadge of the Sigma art? Anyone had an optical design on their hands? Didn't person just above mentioned that filter thread size is different, implying it's not a rebadge?
It's not a Sigma rebadge. If it was it would be released already, not under development, with everything about it still tentative.
02-23-2017, 10:16 AM   #480
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Those images aren't certified to scale. You are deliberately spreading disinformation.
You're right The D FA* 50 is probably a bit larger than in the pic I am being conservative. It's a bit hard to scale from such a small image.
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