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02-23-2017, 04:06 PM - 1 Like   #511
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Excuse me but that's pure marketing propaganda.

The KP has the same dimensions as K3/K3-Ii the previous flagship.

It is a bit lighter true but basically like a K5, previous generation flagship.
It's smaller than K-3/K-5:
available on camerasize.com - PentaxForums.com

And how is this a 'marketing propaganda', if this camera is smaller than it's direct competitors?

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
It is heavier/bigger than the previous non flagship cameras of the past years: KS1, KS2, K70, K50...

They can't get arround the K-mount + mirror box, that's a given. But the camera could be significantly smaller/lighter if they wanted; At least like a KS1, likely smaller.
I said that KP is a compact DSLR, not that it's a smallest K-mount camera yet. Neither of cameras that you've listed feature separate aperture motor and magnesium alloy body, which contribute to body size and some of them don't have tiltable screen. There is no way that they could've put all features of KP into smaller body.

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
While I think that Pentax keep it DSLR reasonably sized, they tend to make them heavy and don't make them by any means small and the KP is just getting a marketing label of what was standard for the 10 past camera released by Pentax.
How any of this is contradicting the fact, that KP is a compact DSLR? It's still smaller than comparable Canikon offerings.

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
As for KP being a sign of new small lenses for the FF or even APSC, I fail to see it. For all we know they could decide to not release a new DAltd for the next 5 years and introduce only big/heavy FF lenses keeping FAltds, FA35 and FA50 as the small light FF primes again for the next 5 years. That would look perfectly reasonable, in particular if kenspo is right that the priority of most people will to pay for them prefer huge/heavy perfect lenses overs diminutive FA ltds.
Last released APS-C lens by Pentax was 55-300, which is smaller than previous 55-300, before that Ricoh released 18-50 that also is smaller than previous version of that lens. Last APS-C camera releases were K-70 and KP, which are both one of the smallest DSLRs available on the market today, especially comparing to Canikon offerings. We don't know whether Ricoh will release new Ltd anytime soon, but I'm sure that there will be new compact lenses.

02-23-2017, 04:16 PM   #512
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
On pixel peeping yes. Sharpness is evaluated by zooming in 100%, true. Global image rendering, in this example, depends on the difference between the zones in focus and out of focus areas. Definitely, a fast sharp prime lens renders the final image with the small difference, that differentiate the average shot from the shot that creates a Wow effect. For example, take one of these chinese made fast lenses, even if the sharpness is not that important, you can't get both smooth background and sharp subject (wide open), not because of the thin DoF but because even the center isn't sharp/contrasty wide open. Take a DFA70-200 at f2.8, it is sharpness than the cheapo manual prime and render better. What's the point of using a prime if you have to stop down to f4 ? Ok, the prime is much smaller; that's it.
The choice between primes and zooms isn't really about sharpness. More practice and what you like. We both know that subject/technique is more important than the actual gear.

The key factors are more conveniance, size/weigt, AF performance, rendering a bit. But as the difference will not show in pure sharpness who care if the prime, or the zoom is better? The result of course is dependant of the exact comparison. But neither FAltds or DFA24-70 would disapoint.
02-23-2017, 04:23 PM - 1 Like   #513
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QuoteOriginally posted by Foxbat Quote
We don't know whether Ricoh will release new Ltd anytime soon, but I'm sure that there will be new compact lenses.
That was my point but some took great care fo selling 1mm of smaller size of Kp that is completely irrelevant as form factor with clearly some missing feature toward simiar sized previous gen flagshig like only 1 SD card, only 7FPS, only 1/6000s, no top screen... as an obvious clue of new compact primes anytime soon...

And KP stay as the fact the biggest/heaviest non flagship camera of Pentax in years. It perfectly follow for me the recent tendency of bigger/heavier that we have in Pentax from the past years: K3 vs K5, K1, DFA lenses...

Last edited by Nicolas06; 02-23-2017 at 04:30 PM.
02-23-2017, 04:46 PM   #514
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@Sandy
Oh? I tested one at local shop and got hard vignette wide open. Without the hood it vanished but still required stopping down to clear up.

02-23-2017, 04:48 PM - 1 Like   #515
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Black tape on the golden ring, as if there were some (new?) acronym not to be disclosed too early.
Good observation skills!
I've noticed it too - which makes me think this is maybe an advanced prototype, or even a pre-production sample.
02-23-2017, 05:01 PM   #516
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
@Sandy
Oh? I tested one at local shop and got hard vignette wide open. Without the hood it vanished but still required stopping down to clear up.
I"ve not found the hood to be a problem, either.

02-23-2017, 05:17 PM   #517
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Black tape on the golden ring, as if there were some (new?) acronym not to be disclosed too early.
yet another motor besides SDM DC and PLM? It is going to be AW for sure or FL for flourite?
02-23-2017, 05:22 PM   #518
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I would expect, somewhere in the labs work is being done on it. Just because we don't know about it, doesn't mean nothing is being done. I wonder how many different versions they produce of these lenses before they decide on a final design.
But a shed of some light perhaps? Just the same for that ~24 mm prime which is included in the top requested lens in the Pentax lens survey.

All I can hope now is that Ricoh-Pentax release their 50/1.4 and 85/1.4 the soonest possible to pave way for the lenses to come.

02-23-2017, 05:25 PM   #519
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QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
But a shed of some light perhaps? Just the same for that ~24 mm prime which is included in the top requested lens in the Pentax lens survey.

All I can hope now is that Ricoh-Pentax release their 50/1.4 and 85/1.4 the soonest possible to pave way for the lenses to come.
When you suspect they might be on store shelves?

I'm guessing July at earliest.. maybe as far back as October. The UW and the D-FA telephoto zoom probably next year?
02-23-2017, 05:26 PM   #520
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
@Sandy
Oh? I tested one at local shop and got hard vignette wide open. Without the hood it vanished but still required stopping down to clear up.
All the images in post #150 of this thread were made with the standard hood on. I wouldn't go so far as to say there is *no* vignetting, but it certainly hasn't been a problem.
02-23-2017, 05:40 PM   #521
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Why no compact lenses?

When Pentax conceived the FF K1 they admitted to considering going mirrorless but decided instead to produce a camera with OVF and to keep the K mount due to their existing lens lineup. (Thank you Ricoh)
Given the current consumer interest in mirrorless cameras it would be inconceivable for Ricoh to not have a MILC strategy going forward.

Hypothetically speaking....

If Ricoh were to produce a FF MILC in the future then a new mount would be needed (R mount?).
With this in mind, the obvious development for DFA K mount lenses would be with the large aperture lenses which can be used on the future MILC via a R/ K mount adapter and with minimal impact on overall size.

Therefore further compact lens development (of a "limited" nature) will be for the R mount.( Can you imagine a Sony a7 with a 43mm Limited style lens?)
My suspicion is that limited style lenses will be developed in conjunction with a new FF MILC using the R mount. Afterall, who wants a compact lens and to have to use an adapter to fit it on a MILC?
As such,I don't have any expectations regarding new compact DFA K mount lenses going forward unless Pentax sustain long term profitability in the DSLR segment.

Just a thought....
02-23-2017, 06:19 PM - 3 Likes   #522
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Size comparison:





I am not asking for it to be cheap. I am asking for a simpler more compact cheaper design that suits a photographer who is not a pro. But that won't win any DXO prizes
Spectacular. I might just get one to put in a glass cabinet alongside a Super Takumar 50/1.4, a K55/1.8, a FA50/1.7 and an A50/1.2 and use it as a conversation piece to acknowledge how photographic Internet experts demanded that it be designed this size as they wanted to have 'sharp bokeh across the frame' (because Sigma scored this on DXOmark and Dpreview said it was fantastic if you could get over the fact that it weight 2Kg... Yadda, yadda, yadda) I despair, really I do but that is just the nature if things I suppose, cars are 30% bigger and heavier to protect the prospective Darwin award nominees, maybe lens designers are just following their automotive brethren and throwing more glass, plastic and metal instead of innovation and talent ala the FA's - 35/2 - 43/1.9 - 77/1.8

I'll still get one mind...

Last edited by robbiec; 02-24-2017 at 02:03 AM. Reason: Tongue in cheek comment
02-23-2017, 06:31 PM   #523
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
When Pentax conceived the FF K1 they admitted to considering going mirrorless but decided instead to produce a camera with OVF and to keep the K mount due to their existing lens lineup. (Thank you Ricoh)
Given the current consumer interest in mirrorless cameras it would be inconceivable for Ricoh to not have a MILC strategy going forward.

Hypothetically speaking....

If Ricoh were to produce a FF MILC in the future then a new mount would be needed (R mount?).
With this in mind, the obvious development for DFA K mount lenses would be with the large aperture lenses which can be used on the future MILC via a R/ K mount adapter and with minimal impact on overall size.

Therefore further compact lens development (of a "limited" nature) will be for the R mount.( Can you imagine a Sony a7 with a 43mm Limited style lens?)
My suspicion is that limited style lenses will be developed in conjunction with a new FF MILC using the R mount. Afterall, who wants a compact lens and to have to use an adapter to fit it on a MILC?
As such,I don't have any expectations regarding new compact DFA K mount lenses going forward unless Pentax sustain long term profitability in the DSLR segment.

Just a thought....
Hopefully the future will be OVF/EVF hybrid.
02-23-2017, 06:38 PM   #524
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QuoteOriginally posted by HopelessTogger Quote
Hopefully the future will be OVF/EVF hybrid.
IN one interview a few years ago, Pentax brass offered the opinion that mirrorless didn't yet meat their standards, implying that when it does, they will make a mirrorless.
02-23-2017, 06:41 PM   #525
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QuoteOriginally posted by BROO Quote
When Pentax conceived the FF K1 they admitted to considering going mirrorless but decided instead to produce a camera with OVF and to keep the K mount due to their existing lens lineup. (Thank you Ricoh)
Given the current consumer interest in mirrorless cameras it would be inconceivable for Ricoh to not have a MILC strategy going forward.
When was it that they mentioned this? I would like to see!

I think mirrorless is going to be more of a trend that will, somewhat, outplay itself over time and not consume all ILCs. Not that I expect them to disappear.. but live alongside DSLRs.

The Pentax brand is built around the PENTAprism in their name... so I suspect they will be very hesitant about moving towards mirrorless.

I think 645 won't even go mirrorless anytime soon. They'll shrink the electronics and work on larger sensor size (from their current cropped MF sensor) to make up for the ginormous mirrorbox.
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