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02-25-2017, 10:34 AM   #616
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
It may actually work better as the edges will be cropped due to the reduced image circle that APS-C covers. So the edges, where more softness or distortion lives vs. the center, are brought in closer to that center.

---------- Post added 02-25-17 at 12:30 PM ----------

There are lenses that are described as "for crop bodies" that work on full frame. Off the top of my head, the DA 35 f2.4, DA 40 Ltd, DA 40 XS, DA*55, DA 70 Ltd all work without any modifications on full frame. The DA 10-17 FE requires the hood to be cut off to work on full frame, and the DA 60-250 requires modifications to the rear element baffle (not the glass, the plastic surround) to work on full frame. There are also zooms that work through some but not all of their range on full frame.

This has been discussed at length in other threads.
The current 50 1.8 works too, but it's fairly soft wide open at the edges. By 5.6 is fairly good though.

02-25-2017, 10:45 AM   #617
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
possibly limited backwards compatibility though?
Well, if it's KAF4 older cameras don't support that; and AF might not work optimally (though with Pentax I don't remember instances in which new lenses had bad AF on older cameras).
02-25-2017, 10:53 AM   #618
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The DA 50 1.8 is sort of on the edge with that, yeah. There's so many cheap 50's that I wouldn't bother with that thing if full was the aim; F 50 1.7's on fleabay etc are about the same cost and I'd rather have one of those anyway. I'm happy that I bought an M 50 1.4 to play with, I think it's a good learning tool. In any case, if I have K-1 money, I'd be skipping that DA 50 1.8 unless it's just playing around while I wait for a better matching lens shows up in the mail.
02-25-2017, 11:10 AM   #619
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
The DA 50 1.8 is sort of on the edge with that, yeah. There's so many cheap 50's that I wouldn't bother with that thing if full was the aim; F 50 1.7's on fleabay etc are about the same cost and I'd rather have one of those anyway. I'm happy that I bought an M 50 1.4 to play with, I think it's a good learning tool. In any case, if I have K-1 money, I'd be skipping that DA 50 1.8 unless it's just playing around while I wait for a better matching lens shows up in the mail.
I got mine for the trip, and I only had few days to get a lens and the camera before departing. So ended up getting knew from Amazon. It's nice enough lens, but I'd certainly try to upgrade to this new 1.4 if I can afford it, hopefully price will be around 1000-1300$, more than that would be harder to justify)

02-25-2017, 11:25 AM - 1 Like   #620
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
I got mine for the trip, and I only had few days to get a lens and the camera before departing. So ended up getting knew from Amazon. It's nice enough lens, but I'd certainly try to upgrade to this new 1.4 if I can afford it, hopefully price will be around 1000-1300$, more than that would be harder to justify)
I will say that having a small, light, inexpensive 50 like that in your pocket isn't such a bad thing. It can serve a K-1 owner a purpose; given my choice, I'd grab something else, but I would do the same thing you did if I was in your specific shoes at the time.
02-25-2017, 02:14 PM - 1 Like   #621
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
The DA 10-17 FE requires the hood to be cut off to work on full frame
I have to pick you up on this. The DA10-17 does NOT cover the full frame until about 14-15mm focal length. Wider than that there is a hard physical vignette, even in the corners where there is no hood protrusion.


DA10-17 @ 10mm MFD film

Cutting the hood will not help, so please don't encourage people to permanently damage their lenses.

Last edited by Sandy Hancock; 02-25-2017 at 06:07 PM.
02-25-2017, 03:47 PM   #622
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I can't agree. This is a fish eye lens, with 10mm it can't fill the whole frame. It is not rectangular fitted per design

Have a look here:
DA*10-17mm on K-1 at 10mm? - PentaxForums.com
especially:
DA*10-17mm on K-1 at 10mm? - PentaxForums.com
02-25-2017, 05:17 PM   #623
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Yes, you are talking like an amateur. I understand you, want a consumer camera.


Oh yes, not necessary but when there is choice, the 36Mpx is selected over the cheapo.

I can feel the difference between our generations. You are in your 30s, you don't know studying without computer and mobile phone, when facebook was born you were still at university. So for you, 1Mpixels is enough (posting on facebook) and the smartphones what can imitate bokeh are for you. When are you stepping out of photography?
A quick glance at Nicolas06 gallery on flickr will show you his photographic production id not exactly on the smartphone cheapo side:
Nicolas | Flickr
Nicolas | Flickr

02-25-2017, 05:31 PM   #624
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So having that German outfit do a hood slice on the 10-17 doesn't actually help at any focal distance? That's.... not what I would have expected for having such a service done.

Scratch that from my previous post.
02-25-2017, 06:16 PM   #625
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QuoteOriginally posted by joergens.mi Quote
I can't agree. This is a fish eye lens, with 10mm it can't fill the whole frame. It is not rectangular fitted per design

Have a look here:
DA*10-17mm on K-1 at 10mm? - PentaxForums.com
The image you have linked proves my point. The DA10-17 @ 10-14 isn't a full frame lens - the image circle just isn't big enough even with the hood removed. If you want a cut-off circular fisheye (and I admit, it's kinda cool), then by all means take to the hood with a Dremel.

I just don't want anyone thinking it will cover the full 36x24 rectangular frame, which is what everyone else means when we talk about Full Frame.

Last edited by Sandy Hancock; 02-26-2017 at 12:21 AM.
02-25-2017, 11:18 PM - 1 Like   #626
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tatouzou Quote
A quick glance at Nicolas06 gallery on flickr will show you his photographic production id not exactly on the smartphone cheapo side: Nicolas | Flickr Nicolas | Flickr
What happened with Nicolas (if I followed correctly), while in search of higher image quality, he upgraded from a K5 to K3, then he replaced his DA* SDM zooms by a set of FA limited, then he decided to put his photography budget in low prio versus other things (he's probably investing or saving in other areas), now he tried not to cross the fence of higher IQ because that would put his saving plans in danger, hence the lengthy argumentation about why full frame is not necessary etc etc etc. That's perfectly understandable, with all the marketing mermaid working out people desires to upgrade to better gear, you must constantly convince yourself that an upgrade is not necessary, that's what Nicolas is trying to do, so far he is successful as he managed not to buy any new photo gear. Also, if he can get some approval from a few PF member that higher image quality is useless, it makes it easier for him to consolidate the wall of sandbags to protect his bank account.
02-26-2017, 01:00 AM   #627
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
The image you have linked proves my point. The DA10-17 @ 10-14 isn't a full frame lens - the image circle just isn't big enough even with the hood removed. If you want a cut-off circular fisheye (and I admit, it's kinda cool), then by all means take to the hood with a Dremel.

I just don't want anyone thinking it will cover the full 36x24 rectangular frame, which is what everyone else means when we talk about Full Frame.
No circular fischeye - with an orthographic projection - that shows 180 degree viewing angle will fit the 24x36 fullframe lens, this will only by done by rectilinear corrected lens, like the Samyang 8mm (An APS-C lens). A complete circular picture you will achieve with an 8mm on a 35mm format,

"circular fisheye" — lenses which took in a 180 hemisphere and projected this as a circle within the film frame

Have a look here:
Fisheye lens - Wikipedia

if a 8mm or 10mm will fill the 24x36mm frame it is not an circular fisheye but an rectilinear corrected one, but these can only show a 180 in the diagonal, not more. There are some special lenses for scientific use availiable that show you 180 at the 36mm long side but less on the 24mm short side.

The most interesting optics in that range is the Fisheye-Nikkor 6mm f/2.8 with an viewing angel of 220, ist is looking backwards.

but most of this should be wellknown to photographers
02-26-2017, 01:05 AM - 1 Like   #628
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QuoteOriginally posted by grahame Quote
But now I am a little worrying that, if the Pentax character is fading away, and it becomes just another Canikon, why would non-Pentax users switch to Pentax or start to buy pentax? As big, as heavy, same style, only performance is somewhat lagging behind (e.g. AF, flash, video..)?
And discarding Pentax's DNA might turn some older Pentaxians away. Some of us stays with Pentax in the past decades, because we found Pentax's style meets out needs. If Pentax becomes a 80% Canikon, or even 90%, why shouldn't users just pick 100% Canikon? Or SOny? or Fuji?
At the moment Canon changed FD mount to EOS, Canon brought out all their ability and talent and effort, gave new users an excellent system, including bodies and lenses. By doing that, Canon won the older and new users. --- Can Pentax do that? -- build a system that is much better than competitors?
Anyway, good to see Pentax is working hard to bring us new stuff that performances well. I just hope it won't turn to another direction completely and forget whom they were and whom they are.
Having IBIS in a DSLR is a pretty big freaking deal, IMHO. It really allows for unparalleled image quality because you can use much lower ISOs. When you can hit 1/20 at ISO100 with a 100mm lens without issue, it's amazing. While most of the Canikon zooms are available with stabilization, the primes are largely not, even super premium lenses like the Canon 85mm f/1.2. A Canikon user has to use ~1/100 and ISO640. It's not bad but that ISO100 is just going to be so clean.

That's definitely something Pentax does better. As long as they keep their pricing reasonable, they're doing some really interesting things that make for some compelling products.

---------- Post added 02-26-17 at 02:09 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
There are lenses that are described as "for crop bodies" that work on full frame. Off the top of my head, the DA 35 f2.4, DA 40 Ltd, DA 40 XS, DA*55, DA 70 Ltd all work without any modifications on full frame. The DA 10-17 FE requires the hood to be cut off to work on full frame, and the DA 60-250 requires modifications to the rear element baffle (not the glass, the plastic surround) to work on full frame.
While the image quality of the DA*55 is stellar on the K-1, it does vignette pretty hard below f/4 or so. This isn't just at infinity (where it's worst) but at all focusing distances. It is correctable, however, but let's not pretend it's the perfect lens. If you're a JPEG shooter, it may well not be good enough.
02-26-2017, 01:13 AM - 1 Like   #629
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QuoteOriginally posted by joergens.mi Quote
Have a look here:
Fisheye lens - Wikipedia
It might shock you that I am actually quite familiar with all this.

Nothing you have written changes the incontrovertible fact that the DA10-17 does not cover the full 36x24 frame until about 15mm. That is the only point I have been trying to make.
02-26-2017, 01:28 AM - 1 Like   #630
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
28mm, definitely (Ricoh GR, etc.). 35mm is more a "European" focal length (Leica).


I think 28mm/35mm is down to personal taste, not geography. I'd prefer a 35mm because it's still long enough (just) for a general-purpose walk-around lens, while 28mm isn't. I strongly suspect that the wide-angle will be a 35mm f/1.4 as Pentax are aping Canikon/Sigma in their recent lenses in order to quell criticism of their lens line-up. I can understand why but it is reducing the unique Pentax-ness of the lenses (compact, unusual focal lengths) but it's what the people with the cash to spend want.
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