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joergens.mi · 02-26-2017, 01:31 AM

But you should also say, that it is no fault, but per design. The limitation is the physic behind that.
The way you wrote this, implies, that something was done wrong, and others have a better solution for that.

Sandy Hancock · 02-26-2017, 01:46 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by joergens.mi

The way you wrote this, implies, that something was done wrong

No, you have completely misunderstood me. It is a DA lens, so the assumption should be that it is designed for crop cameras.

Someone else (pres589) suggested you could make it into a full frame lens by hacking off the hood. I just wanted to clarify that is most certainly not the case. The suggestion has subsequently been deleted.

I think perhaps we are actually on the same side

**Kerrowdown** · 02-26-2017, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by Nicolas06

You may even notice his photos are quite great, not because of sharpness but light, subject, colors, composition...

And there was me thinking it was down to his subject material...

biz-engineer · 02-26-2017, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by Kerrowdown

And there was me thinking it was down to his subject material...

What format was he shooting? Size doesn't matter.

**Rondec** · 02-26-2017, 03:32 AM - **4 Likes**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

What happened with Nicolas (if I followed correctly), while in search of higher image quality, he upgraded from a K5 to K3, then he replaced his DA* SDM zooms by a set of FA limited, then he decided to put his photography budget in low prio versus other things (he's probably investing or saving in other areas), now he tried not to cross the fence of higher IQ because that would put his saving plans in danger, hence the lengthy argumentation about why full frame is not necessary etc etc etc. That's perfectly understandable, with all the marketing mermaid working out people desires to upgrade to better gear, you must constantly convince yourself that an upgrade is not necessary, that's what Nicolas is trying to do, so far he is successful as he managed not to buy any new photo gear. Also, if he can get some approval from a few PF member that higher image quality is useless, it makes it easier for him to consolidate the wall of sandbags to protect his bank account.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to say "x" camera (K3, K5 II, whatever) is good enough for me and the lenses I have now are adequate for my needs as well, without saying new cameras and lenses are pointless.

We used to have these full frame versus APS-C arguments ad nauseum on the forum. Fortunately they have settled down a lot, but they really came down to people saying "Crop cameras are good enough for most purposes" and others saying "But I still really want full frame." Now that the K-1 is here, those arguments have died down -- people who want full frame get it and those who are happy with what they have already don't and that's probably the way it should be.

biz-engineer · 02-26-2017, 03:37 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I think it is perfectly reasonable to say "x" camera (K3, K5 II, whatever) is good enough for me and the lenses I have now are adequate for my needs as well, without saying new cameras and lenses are pointless. We used to have these full frame versus APS-C arguments ad nauseum on the forum. Fortunately they have settled down a lot, but they really came down to people saying "Crop cameras are good enough for most purposes" and others saying "But I still really want full frame." Now that the K-1 is here, those arguments have died down -- people who want full frame get it and those who are happy with what they have already don't and that's probably the way it should be.

Indeed.

awscreo · 02-26-2017, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

What happened with Nicolas (if I followed correctly), while in search of higher image quality, he upgraded from a K5 to K3, then he replaced his DA* SDM zooms by a set of FA limited, then he decided to put his photography budget in low prio versus other things (he's probably investing or saving in other areas), now he tried not to cross the fence of higher IQ because that would put his saving plans in danger, hence the lengthy argumentation about why full frame is not necessary etc etc etc. That's perfectly understandable, with all the marketing mermaid working out people desires to upgrade to better gear, you must constantly convince yourself that an upgrade is not necessary, that's what Nicolas is trying to do, so far he is successful as he managed not to buy any new photo gear. Also, if he can get some approval from a few PF member that higher image quality is useless, it makes it easier for him to consolidate the wall of sandbags to protect his bank account.

My wife might want me to implement this strategy

**monochrome** · 02-26-2017, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I think it is perfectly reasonable to say "x" camera (K3, K5 II, whatever) is good enough for me and the lenses I have now are adequate for my needs as well, without saying new cameras and lenses are pointless.

We used to have these full frame versus APS-C arguments ad nauseum on the forum. Fortunately they have settled down a lot, but they really came down to people saying "Crop cameras are good enough for most purposes" and others saying "But I still really want full frame." Now that the K-1 is here, those arguments have died down -- people who want full frame get it and those who are happy with what they have already don't and that's probably the way it should be.

And then there are people who bought the K-1 fully intending to sell off all their APSc gear and actually concentrate on taking photos rather than arguing about cameras on the internet, but never got around to the selling the DA lenses part because the DA Limiteds are pretty good in crop mode on K-1, and along comes the KP, and those people still have 4 DA Limiteds . . . .

Nicholas has a point, to a point. If the object is images most of us don't need more gear.

BrianR · 02-26-2017, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by pres589

So having that German outfit do a hood slice on the 10-17 doesn't actually help at any focal distance? That's.... not what I would have expected for having such a service done.

Scratch that from my previous post.

I didn't see this linked to (apologies if I missed it), but his page has good examples of the Tokina 10-17mm on a FF canon before and after shaving.

Tokina 10-17 mounted on Canon 5D | EN | 360pano.de

I'm not sure how different the Tokina 10-17mm body is to the Pentax version, but it should give an idea. You do get more room in cropping, but it's (to me) a little unsatisfying that you don't hit the whole circle in the frame. You might do well to shoot hoodless at 10-11mm, then rotate the camera 90 degrees (e.g. from landscape to portrait orientation) for another shot, then stitch the results together.

mee · 02-26-2017, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by pres589

So having that German outfit do a hood slice on the 10-17 doesn't actually help at any focal distance? That's.... not what I would have expected for having such a service done.

Scratch that from my previous post.

Why not edit it? DFA*50 1.4 coming - Page 41 - PentaxForums.com

**pres589** · 02-26-2017, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by mee

Why not edit it? DFA*50 1.4 coming - Page 41 - PentaxForums.com

Because I went to bed.

Yeesh.

**Kerrowdown** · 02-26-2017, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

What format was he shooting? Size doesn't matter.

I'm talking about the bonnie lasses...

mee · 02-26-2017, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by pres589

Because I went to bed.

Yeesh.

You're sleep typing?

**pres589** · 02-26-2017, 09:35 AM

Good lord. In any case, I fixed it. There's better threads for that stuff anyway, and this one has really evolved into something else.

aurele · 02-26-2017, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by frogfoot

I think they designed such a big lens to increase its image circle way above 24x36 mm to use only the best, core part of it to obtain sharpness from border to border. Also they might made it with real aperture of 0.7 or so and diaphragmed it down to 1.4 to decrease aberrations.

that is correct. The Otus line can be adapted on mirrorless MF camera (custom job) and cover a great part of the sensor. The blog writer "Ming Thein" expressed it quite a few time.

02-26-2017, 08:13 AM	#639
BrianR Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,332	Originally posted by pres589 So having that German outfit do a hood slice on the 10-17 doesn't actually help at any focal distance? That's.... not what I would have expected for having such a service done. Scratch that from my previous post. I didn't see this linked to (apologies if I missed it), but his page has good examples of the Tokina 10-17mm on a FF canon before and after shaving. Tokina 10-17 mounted on Canon 5D \| EN \| 360pano.de I'm not sure how different the Tokina 10-17mm body is to the Pentax version, but it should give an idea. You do get more room in cropping, but it's (to me) a little unsatisfying that you don't hit the whole circle in the frame. You might do well to shoot hoodless at 10-11mm, then rotate the camera 90 degrees (e.g. from landscape to portrait orientation) for another shot, then stitch the results together. Last edited by BrianR; 02-26-2017 at 08:29 AM.

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02-26-2017, 01:31 AM	#631
joergens.mi Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 408	But you should also say, that it is no fault, but per design. The limitation is the physic behind that. The way you wrote this, implies, that something was done wrong, and others have a better solution for that.

02-26-2017, 01:46 AM - 1 Like	#632
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	Originally posted by joergens.mi The way you wrote this, implies, that something was done wrong No, you have completely misunderstood me. It is a DA lens, so the assumption should be that it is designed for crop cameras. Someone else (pres589) suggested you could make it into a full frame lens by hacking off the hood. I just wanted to clarify that is most certainly not the case. The suggestion has subsequently been deleted. I think perhaps we are actually on the same side

02-26-2017, 02:01 AM	#633
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,867	Originally posted by Nicolas06 You may even notice his photos are quite great, not because of sharpness but light, subject, colors, composition... And there was me thinking it was down to his subject material...

02-26-2017, 03:23 AM	#634
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,249	Originally posted by Kerrowdown And there was me thinking it was down to his subject material... What format was he shooting? Size doesn't matter.

02-26-2017, 03:32 AM - 4 Likes	#635
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,666	Originally posted by biz-engineer What happened with Nicolas (if I followed correctly), while in search of higher image quality, he upgraded from a K5 to K3, then he replaced his DA* SDM zooms by a set of FA limited, then he decided to put his photography budget in low prio versus other things (he's probably investing or saving in other areas), now he tried not to cross the fence of higher IQ because that would put his saving plans in danger, hence the lengthy argumentation about why full frame is not necessary etc etc etc. That's perfectly understandable, with all the marketing mermaid working out people desires to upgrade to better gear, you must constantly convince yourself that an upgrade is not necessary, that's what Nicolas is trying to do, so far he is successful as he managed not to buy any new photo gear. Also, if he can get some approval from a few PF member that higher image quality is useless, it makes it easier for him to consolidate the wall of sandbags to protect his bank account. I think it is perfectly reasonable to say "x" camera (K3, K5 II, whatever) is good enough for me and the lenses I have now are adequate for my needs as well, without saying new cameras and lenses are pointless. We used to have these full frame versus APS-C arguments ad nauseum on the forum. Fortunately they have settled down a lot, but they really came down to people saying "Crop cameras are good enough for most purposes" and others saying "But I still really want full frame." Now that the K-1 is here, those arguments have died down -- people who want full frame get it and those who are happy with what they have already don't and that's probably the way it should be.

02-26-2017, 03:37 AM	#636
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,249	Originally posted by Rondec I think it is perfectly reasonable to say "x" camera (K3, K5 II, whatever) is good enough for me and the lenses I have now are adequate for my needs as well, without saying new cameras and lenses are pointless. We used to have these full frame versus APS-C arguments ad nauseum on the forum. Fortunately they have settled down a lot, but they really came down to people saying "Crop cameras are good enough for most purposes" and others saying "But I still really want full frame." Now that the K-1 is here, those arguments have died down -- people who want full frame get it and those who are happy with what they have already don't and that's probably the way it should be. Indeed.

02-26-2017, 07:18 AM	#637
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	Originally posted by biz-engineer What happened with Nicolas (if I followed correctly), while in search of higher image quality, he upgraded from a K5 to K3, then he replaced his DA* SDM zooms by a set of FA limited, then he decided to put his photography budget in low prio versus other things (he's probably investing or saving in other areas), now he tried not to cross the fence of higher IQ because that would put his saving plans in danger, hence the lengthy argumentation about why full frame is not necessary etc etc etc. That's perfectly understandable, with all the marketing mermaid working out people desires to upgrade to better gear, you must constantly convince yourself that an upgrade is not necessary, that's what Nicolas is trying to do, so far he is successful as he managed not to buy any new photo gear. Also, if he can get some approval from a few PF member that higher image quality is useless, it makes it easier for him to consolidate the wall of sandbags to protect his bank account. My wife might want me to implement this strategy

02-26-2017, 07:25 AM	#638
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Rondec I think it is perfectly reasonable to say "x" camera (K3, K5 II, whatever) is good enough for me and the lenses I have now are adequate for my needs as well, without saying new cameras and lenses are pointless. We used to have these full frame versus APS-C arguments ad nauseum on the forum. Fortunately they have settled down a lot, but they really came down to people saying "Crop cameras are good enough for most purposes" and others saying "But I still really want full frame." Now that the K-1 is here, those arguments have died down -- people who want full frame get it and those who are happy with what they have already don't and that's probably the way it should be. And then there are people who bought the K-1 fully intending to sell off all their APSc gear and actually concentrate on taking photos rather than arguing about cameras on the internet, but never got around to the selling the DA lenses part because the DA Limiteds are pretty good in crop mode on K-1, and along comes the KP, and those people still have 4 DA Limiteds . . . . Nicholas has a point, to a point. If the object is images most of us don't need more gear.

02-26-2017, 08:22 AM	#640
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by pres589 So having that German outfit do a hood slice on the 10-17 doesn't actually help at any focal distance? That's.... not what I would have expected for having such a service done. Scratch that from my previous post. Why not edit it? DFA*50 1.4 coming - Page 41 - PentaxForums.com

02-26-2017, 08:31 AM	#641
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,533	Originally posted by mee Why not edit it? DFA*50 1.4 coming - Page 41 - PentaxForums.com Because I went to bed. Yeesh.

02-26-2017, 08:56 AM	#642
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,867	Originally posted by biz-engineer What format was he shooting? Size doesn't matter. I'm talking about the bonnie lasses...

02-26-2017, 09:11 AM	#643
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by pres589 Because I went to bed. Yeesh. You're sleep typing?

02-26-2017, 09:35 AM	#644
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,533	Good lord. In any case, I fixed it. There's better threads for that stuff anyway, and this one has really evolved into something else.

02-26-2017, 09:53 AM	#645
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	Originally posted by frogfoot I think they designed such a big lens to increase its image circle way above 24x36 mm to use only the best, core part of it to obtain sharpness from border to border. Also they might made it with real aperture of 0.7 or so and diaphragmed it down to 1.4 to decrease aberrations. that is correct. The Otus line can be adapted on mirrorless MF camera (custom job) and cover a great part of the sensor. The blog writer "Ming Thein" expressed it quite a few time.