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03-01-2017, 07:00 PM - 3 Likes   #706
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
And would you prefer a lens released on time with deficiencies or one kept back until it was correct? Ricoh did the right thing and said stuff the deadlines, it will be ready when it is ready, that Ladies and Gentlemen takes something called confidence.
As I recall Ricoh said they weren't happy with the lens and did a major redesign which accounts for the delays. I don't see many complaints about the resulting lens that was delivered.

03-01-2017, 07:50 PM   #707
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Don't draw a rule from one single and specific experience (or two, let us recall DA*60-250's former and other design change).
03-01-2017, 07:57 PM   #708
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
K-1 was both offered and released well before the earthquakes (early 1Q2016) with a liberal pre-order period (6 weeks IIRC). 70-200 was rumored by asahi man but not announced and offered until K-1, with a similar, liberal pre-order period. Tamron clones just dropped from the sky.
I remember your pre-order was delayed and delayed so you said forget it and bought it locally. There was clearly a supply issue..

70-200 was announced way back in Feb 2015 time frame but kicked back and back again.. there was a lot of silence at the time from RI and the only info we got was from asahi man. Meanwhile the 150-450 had no troubles being launched... even though both were debuted at CP+ at the same time. Clearly there were issues with the lens itself... and further backed up by asahiman later on.
03-02-2017, 03:05 AM - 6 Likes   #709
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote

70-200 was announced way back in Feb 2015 time frame but kicked back and back again.. .
I think Ricoh refer to that in the K-1 Special Site interview with their lens designers:
"The development of the new D FA-series lenses also meant new challenges in the mechanical design and mass production processes. Some types of glass material are harder to process than others; thinner lenses require higher precision in the polishing and assembly processes. In fact, some of the new D FA-series lenses couldn’t be produced by the existing mass-production system.

One of the designers in charge of developing the lens barrel and inner mechanisms gives the example of one large-aperture telephoto zoom lens. “When I created a test sample that was true to the original design plan, it produced a peculiar flare and couldn’t deliver the resolution we wanted,” he says. “When I looked into the causes, it turned out that the spherical precision of the large-aperture, special-glass lens was slightly off. The error was beyond the level detectable by measuring instruments, so it was impossible for us to anticipate this in advance.”

Under normal circumstances, there was the possibility that the optical design could be redone from the initial design stage. However, the PENTAX optical design team carefully examined the entire production system to find out how, at what point and by what standards they should measure the lens to attain the desired level of precision, and achieve the intended optical performance. Collaborating with the production staff, they reworked the entire assembly line to solve the problem. Because of this experience, the optical design team reviewed the entire development process and implemented a new system. In this system, test models using special glass materials would be polished and assembled from the earliest stages exactly as actual lenses would be mass-produced at the factory.

This was something of an extreme case, but the optical design team also adopted a more elaborate quality-control system for all other D FA-series lenses than the previous one. In the end, the new D FA series even helped advance the company’s development and mass-production processes. "


03-02-2017, 03:22 AM - 1 Like   #710
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
70-200 was announced way back in Feb 2015 time frame but kicked back and back again.. there was a lot of silence at the time from RI and the only info we got was from asahi man. Meanwhile the 150-450 had no troubles being launched... even though both were debuted at CP+ at the same time. Clearly there were issues with the lens itself... and further backed up by asahiman later on.
Ephotozine have two reviews of the lens - one from 20 Apr 2015 (Pentax HD PENTAX-D FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW Review), the other from 18 May 2016 (Pentax HD PENTAX-D FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW Review) -and although the style of the MTF graphs is different, they are surprisingly different in findings also - the later version having much more marked evenness across the range of f-stops - among other things
03-02-2017, 03:31 AM - 2 Likes   #711
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The content of this special site should make those thinking Ricoh does not share any info reconsider. I don't see a lot of firms giving as much as Ricoh does in the K-1, special site.
03-02-2017, 05:27 AM - 3 Likes   #712
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The issues with the tooling and assembly precision just shows how capital starved Pentax was when Ricoh acquired it. We complain they aren't producing new lenses quickly enough, then they reveal that in order to produce the lens they had to minutely examine their entire production process and (likely) make significant capital investment in new machines.

From the outside it looks like they aren't doing much, while we find internally they're furiously upgrading their tools and QA.
03-02-2017, 06:03 AM   #713
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think Ricoh refer to that in the K-1 Special Site interview with their lens designers:
"The development of the new D FA-series lenses also meant new challenges in the mechanical design and mass production processes. Some types of glass material are harder to process than others; thinner lenses require higher precision in the polishing and assembly processes. In fact, some of the new D FA-series lenses couldn’t be produced by the existing mass-production system.

One of the designers in charge of developing the lens barrel and inner mechanisms gives the example of one large-aperture telephoto zoom lens. “When I created a test sample that was true to the original design plan, it produced a peculiar flare and couldn’t deliver the resolution we wanted,” he says. “When I looked into the causes, it turned out that the spherical precision of the large-aperture, special-glass lens was slightly off. The error was beyond the level detectable by measuring instruments, so it was impossible for us to anticipate this in advance.”

Under normal circumstances, there was the possibility that the optical design could be redone from the initial design stage. However, the PENTAX optical design team carefully examined the entire production system to find out how, at what point and by what standards they should measure the lens to attain the desired level of precision, and achieve the intended optical performance. Collaborating with the production staff, they reworked the entire assembly line to solve the problem. Because of this experience, the optical design team reviewed the entire development process and implemented a new system. In this system, test models using special glass materials would be polished and assembled from the earliest stages exactly as actual lenses would be mass-produced at the factory.

This was something of an extreme case, but the optical design team also adopted a more elaborate quality-control system for all other D FA-series lenses than the previous one. In the end, the new D FA series even helped advance the company’s development and mass-production processes. "
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The issues with the tooling and assembly precision just shows how capital starved Pentax was when Ricoh acquired it. We complain they aren't producing new lenses quickly enough, then they reveal that in order to produce the lens they had to minutely examine their entire production process and (likely) make significant capital investment in new machines.

From the outside it looks like they aren't doing much, while we find internally they're furiously upgrading their tools and QA.

The provided info clackers shared proves my point -- RI wasn't playing marketing games with the release date. They found issues with the design very late in the process and resolved it before final product launch. Further, it looks like they took what they learned and enhanced their process. They should be commended for that.

It also seems to answer another question I had of if they are taking what they learn from each lens and building off of it. I think they will get quicker with lens releases.

03-02-2017, 06:06 AM - 1 Like   #714
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
Ephotozine have two reviews of the lens - one from 20 Apr 2015 (Pentax HD PENTAX-D FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW Review), the other from 18 May 2016 (Pentax HD PENTAX-D FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW Review) -and although the style of the MTF graphs is different, they are surprisingly different in findings also - the later version having much more marked evenness across the range of f-stops - among other things
Ricoh also seems to have worked on the AF. The original review noted that "Autofocus with phase detection was hit and miss with tested sample". The new version says: "The crisp and efficient DC motor drives the AF system and is quiet, fast and reliable."

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The issues with the tooling and assembly precision just shows how capital starved Pentax was when Ricoh acquired it. We complain they aren't producing new lenses quickly enough, then they reveal that in order to produce the lens they had to minutely examine their entire production process and (likely) make significant capital investment in new machines.

From the outside it looks like they aren't doing much, while we find internally they're furiously upgrading their tools and QA.
Well, Ricoh took over Pentax in October 2011. I think that about five and a half years after the acquisition, 'Hoya' is not a valid excuse anymore if someone goes wrong in Pentaxland
03-02-2017, 06:57 AM - 3 Likes   #715
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
'Hoya' is not a valid excuse anymore if someone goes wrong in Pentaxland
You really think all the wounds from Hoya is gone? Well, then you're wrong.

But its getting better...
03-02-2017, 07:06 AM   #716
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
You really think all the wounds from Hoya is gone? Well, then you're wrong.

But its getting better...
the pessimist is good informed optimist.
03-02-2017, 07:17 AM - 1 Like   #717
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The optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel. The pessimist sees the darkness surrounding him. The realist sees two idiots sitting on the track, while the train approaches.
03-02-2017, 07:21 AM - 1 Like   #718
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Actually, the optimist takes the light he is seeing for the quickly-approaching end of the tunnel whereas it's just the headlight of the train .
03-02-2017, 07:27 AM - 5 Likes   #719
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
the pessimist is good informed optimist.
Yes, we have both the glass half-full and the glass half-empty types here. We also have a third type, small in number but prolific in posting - especially when new products are released. Their glass is broken and they've cut their wrists trying to pick up the pieces.
03-02-2017, 07:39 AM - 1 Like   #720
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Thing are going forward..and the future looks good..All that matters
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