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03-03-2017, 09:42 PM   #751
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
If nothing else, we need a D-FA*50/1.4 because we need a weather-resistant option. I love my FA50/1.4 for its smallness compared with the expected price and mass of this new humungous beast, not to mention its back-compatibility with all my K-mount film bodies, but if you're the sort who loves (or needs) to shoot normal primes in the rain or other inclement environments it just won't do.
Was the DA* 55 f/1.4 not sealed? It seems to fit the FF circle..

I think the better case, though admittedly through no experience in lens design, is a 50mm is a rather common focal length.. thus potentially the easiest to design before venturing to slightly more 'exotic' ranges such as 85 or 20mm when making fancyschmancy fast and sharp-at-the-edges type primes.

03-03-2017, 10:10 PM - 1 Like   #752
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I think the better case, though admittedly through no experience in lens design, is a 50mm is a rather common focal length.. thus potentially the easiest to design before venturing to slightly more 'exotic' ranges such as 85 or 20mm when making fancyschmancy fast and sharp-at-the-edges type primes.
50mm is the traditional 'Reference Lens' which a lens-designing company must make - and make at the top of the line - to be taken seriously as a professional camera system company. It is a statement lens.

In the 50's Pentax created the standard reference normal lens by which all other lenses were measured, and grew in just 5 years from sales of a couple tens of thousands of cameras a year to 500,000, 1,000,000 and more, and continued as number one for more than 20 years..

Sure, the AP was a breakthrough, and the K, S, and the H's and the SP. But Pentax's reputation was built on the Super-Takumar 50mm 1:1,4.

K-1 is a stellar camera value. HD Pentax D FA 50mm 1:1.4 is the new 'Reference Lens'.
03-03-2017, 10:20 PM - 1 Like   #753
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
In the 50's Pentax created the standard reference normal lens by which all other lenses were measured, and grew in just 5 years from sales of a couple tens of thousands of cameras a year to 500,000, 1,000,000 and more, and continued as number one for more than 20 years..

Sure, the AP was a breakthrough, and the K, S, and the H's and the SP. But Pentax's reputation was built on the Super-Takumar 50mm 1:1,4.
If true, do any photographers under 50 years of age know or care about this these days?

This is a boring history lesson.. just get on with the new lenses and take my money. (I think that is the attitude taken by many )

I don't think most photogs are worried about reference normal lenses or reverence to a history.. they just want solid performing lenses at the focal lengths of their choice [which really aren't since they are largely standardized] and to get back to being mr or ms photographer. Nor do I think Ricoh is going to sell a ton of them.. or a ton of cameras as a result of this fast 50. We have so many 50mm lenses we could shoot with a different one each day for a couple of weeks ..

Yet it indeed is a standardized focal length... thus its a common focal length.. at a focal length that is common to many photographers.. be it street, portrait, landscape.. Plus I do still suspect it is the 'easiest' of all their new fast primes to design..
03-04-2017, 02:31 PM   #754
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
OK, but definitely the wrong topic...
Not really, because part of the present topic is about the huge size of modern top grade large aperture lenses: some of us do want them, other dont, and prefer smaller lenses, like the DA and FA limiteds even if 1/2 or 1 stop slower, not shazrp in the corners wide open, expensive and old fashioned AF.

03-04-2017, 03:57 PM   #755
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I didn't read any 50mm lens ref. In the last exchange, but if you mean so...
03-04-2017, 04:37 PM - 1 Like   #756
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The point of a reference lens is the statement. It is an icon, a standard, representing more about the company than the lens itself.

It is understood relatively few people will actually buy the lens, but many will wish they could, and those who can choose any brand will look at Pentax, whereas before they wouldn't even think of it. It is one, necessary step in a long journey for Pentax. The days when a camera company could just release a complete system in a few short years like the mid-70's are long behind us.

The smug, shallow, uncaring, narcissistic, unaware of history attitude to which you refer is vile; an illness of the modern world.
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
If true, do any photographers under 50 years of age know or care about this these days?

This is a boring history lesson.. just get on with the new lenses and take my money. (I think that is the attitude taken by many )

I don't think most photogs are worried about reference normal lenses or reverence to a history.. they just want solid performing lenses at the focal lengths of their choice [which really aren't since they are largely standardized] and to get back to being mr or ms photographer. Nor do I think Ricoh is going to sell a ton of them.. or a ton of cameras as a result of this fast 50. We have so many 50mm lenses we could shoot with a different one each day for a couple of weeks ..

Yet it indeed is a standardized focal length... thus its a common focal length.. at a focal length that is common to many photographers.. be it street, portrait, landscape.. Plus I do still suspect it is the 'easiest' of all their new fast primes to design..

Last edited by monochrome; 03-04-2017 at 06:21 PM.
03-04-2017, 07:42 PM - 1 Like   #757
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I'd sooner it was a 1.4/43mm lens. Great focal length.
03-05-2017, 12:55 AM   #758
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Then this other big thing is for you :



03-05-2017, 03:37 AM   #759
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Ricoh imaging is a business, they make new products for selling. A new product that sells well is a product that has a purpose and that differentiates from existing products, otherwise, customers don't have a reason to buy. That said, Ricoh imaging already have a range of limited compact lenses for apsc and full frame image circles covering standard field of views and short tele. Should they do anther compact lens between 31mm and 43mm? or between 55mm and 77mm? or should they do something different???

It's fairly easy, in the short term, Ricoh imaging will not make a lens:
- that requires a new mount for mirrorless (you'd better buy a Fuji X or Canon M, or Sony A6x, if not done already).
- that brings not benefit over their existing products (DA ltd, FA ltd compact lenses)

What left?
- 85mm fast
- 50mm fast
- 20mm slow and fast

They obviously have to start making one of those lenses, whether it is a 50 , 20 or 85.

For people wanting a more compact body (vs K1) and leverage what lenses they already have, Ricoh just released the KP that pairs well with a set of HD DA limited lenses. Based on "camera size", a KP + limited lens, is about the size of a Fuji XT body and lens, perfect for traveling and casual shots.
03-05-2017, 03:56 AM   #760
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The point of a reference lens is the statement. It is an icon, a standard, representing more about the company than the lens itself.

It is understood relatively few people will actually buy the lens, but many will wish they could, and those who can choose any brand will look at Pentax, whereas before they wouldn't even think of it. It is one, necessary step in a long journey for Pentax. The days when a camera company could just release a complete system in a few short years like the mid-70's are long behind us.
Ah, but say that to Fuji on APS-C and, now, MF. They went from zero to pretty full system in about three years with the X-Trans and they will probably do something similar on MF. Fuji know that if they are swift and decisive, they can knock some other players out of the game altogether.

The newly announced 50mm f1.4 lens takes its place beside similarly large f1.4 prime lenses from Canon, Nikon and Sigma. Of course Pentax want people to buy it. And if they price it right and the quality is there, then folks will buy it and its eventual stablemates at 35mm, 85mm, etc. The alternative is no modern primes on Pentax FF which would be suicidal. All these big modern f1.4 primes from the main companies are reference lenses, imho. Look at it this way: the price of a reference prime lens just came down from 4K or so (Leica, or medium format lenses, e.g.) to nearer 1.5-2K (FF). Not bad, actually.

I'm not sure there is time anymore for long journeys. We live in a world of I Want It Now. However unlikeable that may be, and personally I find it deeply unlikeable, it's probably the reality for tech companies these days. If you don't do it now, your competitors will have done it for you within a year or two.
03-05-2017, 04:12 AM - 1 Like   #761
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I think the better case, though admittedly through no experience in lens design, is a 50mm is a rather common focal length.. thus potentially the easiest to design before venturing to slightly more 'exotic' ranges such as 85 or 20mm when making fancyschmancy fast and sharp-at-the-edges type primes.
QuoteOriginally posted by HopelessTogger Quote
I'd sooner it was a 1.4/43mm lens. Great focal length.
I think I'm right in saying - this was certainly the received wisdom when I was first learning about photography - that 50mm not only approximates to the field of view of the human eye, but is one of the optically more natural (ie requiring less elements ) lens formulations and thus became the standard kit lens. The reference lens argument is very strong, however - doing this supremely well is an important mark of the company's competence - and I have zero doubt that Ricoh/Pentax will smash it with this one.

43mm, on the other hand, despite being widely regarded as eccentric, is about the closest approximation to the human eye's field of view of any lens, and, as such is ratrher a clever unique Pentax product.
03-05-2017, 04:23 AM   #762
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I'm not sure there is time anymore for long journeys. We live in a world of I Want It Now. However unlikeable that may be, and personally I find it deeply unlikeable, it's probably the reality for tech companies these days. If you don't do it now, your competitors will have done it for you within a year or two.
Some dealers have part exchange programs, which is very good for us customers, but this is also bringing down the barrier of the lens mount. The dealer tried to generate revenue, he does not care if that's with brand a,b,c or d.
When I sold all my Pentax apsc gear, I could have switched to either Nikon or Canon for the same price. So, the mount isn't really a blocking point anymore. The new gear must really stand out as if there was no legacy.
03-05-2017, 04:58 AM   #763
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@mecrox: "They went from zero to pretty full system in about three years with the X-Trans and they will probably do something similar on MF."

While they're much faster at executing than Ricoh Imaging, the statement above isn't actually accurate.
Yes, they launched 15 lenses from 2012 to 2014 (including). Let's call that a "pretty full system" (albeit their long zoom was only announced in 2016).
However, this took several years of preparations; in a recent interview the Sigma CEO (IIRC) said it takes 2-3 years to develop a new lens. Fujifilm had several years to prepare, likely at least 3 since they were developing a new system.

P.S. The quote system seems to be broken... if it's not a feature.
03-05-2017, 05:04 AM   #764
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<<<@!1!@>>>

Not broken just slow.

---------- Post added 05-03-17 at 14:05 ----------

<<<@!1!@>>>
quick quote then?

manual quote:
<<<@!1!@>>>

---------- Post added 05-03-17 at 14:09 ----------

<<<@!1!@>>>
without name

---------- Post added 05-03-17 at 14:10 ----------

<<<@!1!@>>>
from advanced posting box
03-05-2017, 05:12 AM   #765
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Why don't we all just wait?

And what, keep quiet meanwhile?

Crazy man

Last edited by bxf; 03-05-2017 at 07:05 AM.
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